You post this:
Then, two posts later in the thread:
:rolleyes:
Is the tithe for today?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, May 6, 2017.
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Sigh.... can't my critics take a joke?
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Can a joker take criticism?
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I’m not sure what you were trying to communicate here, brother (or why you decided to insult....or try to insult...me). I am not so engaged in your ideas to be one of your critics. I did try to be a friend, but not a critic.
What I said was that the comment reminded me of a Flannery O’Connor story (along the lines of Greenleaf...watch those horns ;) ). Do you have something against O’Connor?
I still think this is a good topic. What do you think was the significance of the tithe in the Old Testament? Do you think that it translates in some way towards New Testament giving? -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite SupporterNo I was just joking around. No insult intended.
Well in the OT they were under law, in the NT we are under grace. I do not like people that try and legalistically bind a tithe on me when I cannot afford to give 10%. I freely give money to the church and I freely enjoy doing so when I give out of my heart and I choose the amount. Also as one poster said the tithe does not always have to be money, it can be ones times, talents, and treasures. Everytime I go out witnessing that can be a contribution. All the tracts I pass out, all the open air preaching that I do, and all the people that I speak with on the streets. Or when I write letters and witness to people that way can also be a tithe contribution. Unfortunately there does not seem to be many ways to get involved in my church except when they have church work days, but that can also be a tithe of my time. In the new covenant this was the way it was intended to be, but there are those christians that still live under the old covenant even though we are under grace. At my old church I heard the pastor say the saddest things. Once I heard him say that they preached on tithing to get people to give more money to the church. If he preached on free will giving people would not donate much to the church. Its clear that pastor did not trust God to provide but felt he had to bind people to a old testament law. So sad! One of many reasons why I left that church. -
That’s fine, as I didn’t feel insulted (I just wondered why the comment).
Scripture speaks of people who were not under the Law. Yet Abraham tithed. So there is a difference, I believe, between looking at tithing as something adhered to under the Law yet made obsolete with the New Covenant. For example, Paul points us to the Abrahamic Covenant with Christ as the Seed and believers as the children of that Promise. So we need to be careful not to ignore what was taught as the Old Testament not only finds expression in the New Testament, but it is essential in learning about the New Testament.
No one is trying to legalistically bind you. This was not an insightful comment on your part. What people are doing is discussing wither or not the Tithe is an active command for the Church. Whether we “can afford” to give 10% does not determine the legitimacy of tithing. Don't forget, there are commands in the Old Testament that we typically believe are commands for today (although not necessarily "under the Law"). We are, for example, to love our neighbor; to love God; to honor our parents; to refrain from stealing...ect.).
Also, New Testament giving was not merely giving freely and the fact that they freely gave describes the character of the people – NOT the gift itself. What describes the gift is that it was not of their abundance (what was left over) but was sacrificial. They gave joyfully and they gave sacrificially. -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite SupporterI disagree. Of coarse people today try to legalistically bind people to tithing 10% on the gross of their salaries. At my last church for example they would preach sermons to make people feel guilty for not tithing 10% or more. You were not there so you do not know.
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The only thing worse than that would be the pastor looking over the finance records and seeing who is giving how much - and if you dont "tithe" you are not allowed to have any church positions.
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You misunderstand. Do you think that we are still bound to the command that we honor and obey our parents? It was a command implied with Noah and his sons and one given later under the Law. Do you think that a preacher who teaches we are to obey and honor our parents is legalistic binding children?
I hope you don't. It is the same with tithing. I do not believe the tithe is for today. But I do believe it finds an expression in the Church - NONE of God's words return void. So you have to ask yourself....what is that expression? You can't say "free-giving" because that is not biblical. You can say free, joyful and sacrificial giving but then you have to acknowledge that the 10% was but a shadow and question what you do with the 90%.
The problem is that you are describing anyone who disagrees with you as trying to "bind" you when instead they probably feel absolutely no responsibility for your choices and are offering you biblical answers for the questions you ask. There is no where in Scripture that the tithe is said to have been done away with, but there are hints that the tithe may also find it's fulfillment in Christ.
So here's a pretty good exercise, I think: When you give biblically, you give sacrificially. Make a list of those things you have sacrificed in order to give to your church. Look at that list along with your monthly budget, paying close attention to what you've spent. -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite SupporterWe all can examine our budgets and give as we are able. I cannot give as much as you but I do give something cheerfully and sacrificially. I enjoy giving to my church and helping the ministry there.
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite SupporterI bet he had a rule like that but never made it public.
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It was public info! Thats how I learned about it.
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I don't think the tithe is for today, and I don't think it should have ever been part of the NT church. If you look at early church history the giving that was done was for the purpose of providing for others in the church who had needs. People gave from their abundance because they wanted to, not because they had to. Tithing in the church came hundreds of years later and was basically a tax in order to support the clergy.
With that being said, voluntary giving is something all Christians should participate in. Your ability would determine what you give, not a percentage. Let's be realistic, church today does not, and really cannot, operate like it did 2000 years ago. It costs money to operate a church and since it takes money to survive, pastors should be paid. Sure you could have a house church and operate on a very small amount of money but that is a different topic. The problem is that the giving done in the early church was in order to provide for others who had needs. We cannot say that giving 10 percent to the church takes care of this. If you have the means and a need presents itself before you, not only should you provide for that need but you should want to do it. Poor people struggle to pay 10% while the richer among us can do it without a problem. If we give because God's love abides in us, percentage will have nothing to do with it. If we give 10% and still live like kings we are closing our eyes to the needs of others.
Something else. What I give has nothing to do with what you give, and what you give has nothing to do with what anyone else gives. If you feel good about yourself because you know you give more than someone else you are proud. If you are bothered that others don't give as much as you do you are proud. If you wish you could give more like someone else you are envious. Give cheerfully, give willingly, give when a need is presented to you, support your church as much as you can, supply the needs of missionaries when you can. It's the heart that matters, not the $$. That is all God sees. -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite SupporterBest post of this thread thanks!
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Those who love much give much. Those who love little give little.
God isn't interested in giving that is done begrudgingly. He loves a cheerful giver. -
That is the beginning point!
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The Lord, as he would expect those of us who have been really financial blessed by Him to give back to His Kingdom work!
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Where in scripture do you get that 10% "is the beginning point?"
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Do you love enough to give 100%?
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That was the standard under law, and have we not been so much more blessed under grace?
Again, it is now based upon proportional giving, so to the one God has greatly financially blessed, more is expected of that person!
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