Yes, they should do all in their power. I agree 100%.
Sometimes however, the means just aren't there and the church needs a pastor. Then faith must come in to play.
Is There a Shortage of Pastors Where You Are? Why is this so?
Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Major B, Aug 25, 2008.
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Some of these churches, however, expect a full-time (or more) pastor on part-time pay. -
Pastor's Faith
Some churches like to focus on the fact that the pastor should live by faith in regard to his pay. In my opinion these churches are those who either cannot afford a full-time pastor or who can, but will not pay him a comfortable salary.
What about the faith of these churches? It would seem to me that they should be willing to demonstrate some faith in this matter, too. If the "best" they can do for their pastor is $26K per year, and he needs $52K per year, why do these churches think that he should be the only one to "trust in the Lord." Suppose such a church as 50 adults who attend regularly. Maybe they should be willing to have the faith to sacrificially give $10 more per person each week (not much of a sacrifice for most people) rather than to "trust the Lord" to meet the extra $500 per week he needs to make ends meet.
Having faith is not just for the pastor. -
exscentric Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Maybe it is the pastor that should set the example and maybe the sheep will follow his example one day :thumbs:
""Really don't want to sound super spiritual, but doesn't there come a time when we have to trust the Lord to meet our needs?
The key is "needs" oft times. That is what God promises, not our wants. :thumbs: -
Long shot
Ideally, yes. Realistically, sad to say, it's not probable. As has been said, "Lord, send us a poor, humble pastor. You keep him humble, and we will keep him poor." -
They did not.
He did not.
Another friend was meeting with the pulpit committee of a church that should have been able to support a man well, but they claimed that they did not have the money. He got up from the table, raised the blinds on the window of the room, and, pointing to the dozen or so new, large, and well-appointed SUVs in the church parking lot, said, "If you can't afford to pay your pastor a lilving wage, then please tell me whose cars these are."
That broke up the meeting. They did not call him either. -
exscentric Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
""Lord, send us a poor, humble pastor. You keep him humble, and we will keep him poor.""
This and other comments make it evident there is a very poor opinion of congregations. They are brothers and sisters in Christ, if you believe in regenerated church membership and live by the belief, and they are SHEEP according to the Word, needing to be led, taught and all that good stuff.
If they are really the faithless, worldly folks they are made out to be, maybe it is because they have not been taught by a man with a godly example in his life.
Don't expect more of them than you are willing to teach them. You men are to be those godly leaders.
Stepping down from the soap box and awaiting incoming :thumbs: -
The problem with many is not that they have not been taught; it is that they are either in need of salvation or have rejected faithful leadership. -
American churches, even Baptist ones, have failed to operate according to scripture> Church discipline, RIGOROUS evangelism (not "tricking people into Church with programs...big difference), and SCRIPTURE from the pulpit (not cute stories).
This has resulted in congregations that are for the largest part unregenerate, and in need of salvation> to them, Church is a country club where they hang out with buddies. -
:thumbs:
AMEN BROTHER! :thumbs:
OR SHOULD I SAY "Oh me" :tonofbricks: -
Don't Misunderstand Me.
My comments do not come from a cynical pastor who has had to struggle and fight to get his congregation to take care of him.
Over the decades I have seen scores of pastors and their families financially abused by churches....churches that could have well afforded to take care of their pastor in an adequate way. Instead, they chose to keep their pastors financially humiliated and beholden to them.
That's only one scenario that has given me a heart for pastors. In most cases you will find me defending them.
Obviously, as pastors we are to feed the sheep and watch them grow and follow our leadership. Ideally, they will eagerly eat what we have prepared and exhibit spiritual growth and maturity. Hopefully, as they do so, they will begin have a change of heart about needing to take care of their pastor and his family. They will become willing to sell their SUV's, downsize their homes, and deplete their savings if that is what is needed to have sufficient funds to take care of their pastor. (Right...when hades freezes over!)
Maybe it does, as someone has pointed out, go back to an unregenerate church membership. It's impossible to renew minds and hearts that have never been regenerated. It's also impossible to force the true sheep to eat the finest of meals. You can set the finest of tables and call them to eat, but if they have no desire to eat, they will not eat and you can't make them. In fact, the pastor is not called to force feed them. He is called to set the table and
Having said all of that, I am fully aware that there are churches around that sacrificially pay their pastor as much as possible....churches that fully realize that the very best they can do is not adequate. Those churches should be willing to allow their pastors to be bi-vocational and understand that he cannot be at their beck and call 24/7. Providing for his family must come before his obligation to the church.
So, there it is, ladies and gentlemen. Please accept my comments as JMHO. :) -
That is my experience of churches in general and I have been a part of Baptist, Non-Denominational and I Pastor a Conservative Congregational Church (Independent). There is a general lack of quality expectations. Many pastors have been wounded by worldly congregations and, so sad to say, many congregations have been tragically wounded by unqualified, uncalled, unskilled, untrustworthy pastors.
These thoughts are not opinion; they are observation of real life situations.
I currently pastor a church which is such a blessing! They support me and my family to the utmost. I trust them and we share a respectful pastoral-congregational relationship. I couldn't be more pleased with where I am.
My last church was NOT so. I was underpaid, which I had agreed to because I sensed a deep call to this church, but I had not agreed to being paid 5 weeks late on many occasions, I did not agree to my health insurance being canceled due to late payment with a pregnant wife, nor did I agree to pastor a church which refused to deal with these problems for lack of offending the "dominant" (and derelict... ) family in the church. I loved them through that as long as I could and then left wounded, but trusting God for the healing which did come ten fold to my expectations. God is good, unfortunately we are often not.
A Pastor MUST look to his first calling as a shepherd; his wife and children. He must provide for them. If he is negligent in this call and successful in the rest he is still a disparate failure. "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." (1 Timothy 5:8 NKJV) -
I confess readily that when I saw the article about pastor shortages, that it tore open recent wounds for me.
However, given the number of responses to this thread and the number of times it has been viewed, this has obviously struck a raw nerve for several people.
I was recently asked to perform a wedding in the town where our last ministerial disaster took place, and I had to turn it down because my wife won't even drive through that county, let alone go to that town. Emotional devastation is a descriptive term here. She is not a faithless woman. When I pastored, was dedicated to the max, and enthusiastic. Now, however, after one too many disasters, she just feels old, sick, deserted, and friendless.
The shame is, that we have alot to offer small congregations. I am not trying to climb some denominational ladder; our kids are grown, so we are not as tied down as a younger couple would be. We have decades of experience as a counseling team. And, I have a job (school teacher) that gives me a lot of flexibility and time off. Because of my previous military career, I have permanent medical coverage. The problem is that I preach the Truth and straightforwardly at that. Small churches don't usually want a Truth Teller, they want a Family chaplain that will preach soothing sermons and practice easy-believism so they can be comforted in the idea that their reprobate relatives are somehow saved because they prayed a prayer at an old time altar, yada, yada, yada, yada.
There are several man like me in our congregation: expositors, faithful pastors, solid, and experienced. One drives an 18-wheeler now, and occasionally preaches here or there; I teach school, another is operating a painting contractor business. -
Major B :
I can understand some of your hurts. Of course, every situation is different.
I ask that the Lord would comfort and heal you and your family. I also ask that the Holy Spirit would guide and direct you to the place of service God desires you to be in.
Don't ever and I mean ever stop preaching the Truth of God! The times we live in need it more than we can ever fully understand.
You are a Warrior of the Cross - don't forget that. Preach the Word! -
Been there too. It is best, I would say, to start a church than to try to reform an old one. Unless the Lord really calls you to reformation and the church truly knows your doctrine before accepting you as their pastor, I would consider starting a church. Having a thorough confession of faith to give the search comittee should keep you out of trouble. hahaha
I was interviewed for a youth pastor position and they were satisfied with know that I believed "once saved, always saved." This was the full extent of my theological examination. lol
Now I would hand folks the 1689 LBCF and see if I get a call back. HAHAHA
(Not seeking vocational ministry any longer though) -
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this has been a rough thread to read through since it did reopen some old wounds a little bit.
Thankfully my wife and i are serving a congregation that is dedicated to taking care of it's pastors. It is a small town small membership church, but has had a history of pastors staying over 5 years or more often. The previous 2 pastors left after a couple of years and this has thrown them into a bit of a tail spin. Not a perfect church, but thankfully we can trust them...now if we can get some to serve more that is a different subject!
I've also been through 2 disasters. Asked to resign by the "powers group" from one church when i was promoted to interim pastor while serving as associate. I was never given a reason for this, found out it was because they wanted to pay a new pastor more and didn't really want to pay me.
At the last church i served for 2 1/2 years it was controlled by one family that had stayed there through at least 3 splits, and caused a couple of them, including right before i arrived. We felt God leading us there though and had high hopes and a great vision for what God wanted to do...they disagreed.
Little by little these small country churches with years of history and years of problem are dying off, and i'm not so sure if that is good or bad. More proof that we need revival and we need people to get their hands off God's church and give Him control again.
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