I found this to be an interesting article: HERE>
Thoughts?
Is there really a Calvinistic resurgence?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Jul 6, 2011.
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Then you said that they joined the RCC not too long ago.
So in which communion are they?
And it seems their understanding of what constitutes Calvinism is woefully deficient. -
I highly doubt that the persons "see no difference between Catholicism and Calvinism" if they are in fact informed about both. But, if they are of a similar mind to you, then I can readily understand why they might say what you report them as saying.
I know a lot of the true Reformed Baptists who are energizing the evangelical world these days, and they really do know the difference between Calvinism and Catholicism. I also know that almost everyone who is not of a Reformed mindset is deathly afraid of these people, so it is no wonder that all sorts of weird smears are pointed in their direction. Of late, there are mainstream articles about the Catholics and Calvinists, IFB and Calvinists, SBC and Calvinists, fill in the _____ and Calvinists... Seemingly Calvinists are everywhere. :smilewinkgrin:
About the article, we should remember that Lumpkin has his own worldview to promulgate... I think that both sides are correct. The SBC is growing in Reformed perspective after the liberal mid-20th century in SBC life. Most of the seminaries are now headed in a Reformed (yet Sly Baptist) direction. That means that thousands of graduates are now taking pulpits and ministries all over the country and the world. They will ultimately bring people back to a biblical perspective regarding the doctrines of grace that has been missing since the era of "big tent" anthropologically-driven revival style of church extension. More, the churches that turn in that direction won't even know that they are headed (now) in a Reformed direction, for the everyday operation of the church, including preaching, has little in common with the rabid discussions we have here on this board. In fact, I'd lay odds that the most strident anti-Calvinist on this board would be in agreement with the sermons preached in these "Calvinistic" churches. It is not like the preacher stands at the front of the congregation and has everyone bow to Calvin or something along those lines... Never happens. His name is not even mentioned, save for the rare use as an illustration (rare indeed, for he is simply not as relevant as some modern figure). Protestantism, on the other hand, has been loosing ground for decades, and some sects or denominations are in serious trouble, largely because of their radically-liberal stances on many biblical doctrines.
Also, Calvinism or Arminianism is not the end all and be all of what happens in a church... It is but one part of the whole, and that dealing with soteriology almost exclusively.
I suggest it is time for those who haven't to spread their wings and try out some of the new reformed churches. They would be shocked to discover that they love Christ and serve Him, often times more fully and with more ministry to the mission and community than do the more Arminian of us. The old memes simply don't play as well any more now that there is evidence to the contrary, but preachers still major on division instead of unity in Christ, mostly to protect their own turf. So be it... God will ultimately decide if their "turf" was His or not... -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"Regionally, Reformed churches were most common in the Northeast"
I will tend to agree because of a wide expanse of Presbyterians & Reformed congregations but many have become apostate ( Presbyterian USA). The Churches that appear to make headway are the Orthodox Presbyterians & Reformed Baptists in my community in northern NJ. At least they are always full to capacity on Sunday's. -
Just wondering WHAT calvinism would be growing?
reformed with all of the confessionals/creeds
Cals that take Sotierology only, still keep "baptist" baptism/eschatology etc? -
Go find Christianity Today's 2006 article by Collin Hanson, titled "Young, Restless and Reformed."
This will give you a pretty good feel for the rise of Calvinism among Southern Baptists.
Here's the link:http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/september/42.32.html -
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I've read some non-Cal SBCers who say the only way Calvinism can regain dominance in the SBC is through subterfuge. That is, the Calvinist preacher lies to the pastor search committee about his DoG beliefs and conceals them from the church, then starts preaching on the subject in subtle ways once he's pastor. -
They justify it by reasoning that the laypeople on a search committee just don't understand what Calvinism really is, but figure they can slowly explain it to them over time if given the chance. Can you spell C-H-U-R-C-H S-P-L-I-T? -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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There is a pervasive and fundamental misunderstanding of Calvinism that can even suggest that Calvinism equals Presbyterianism or some other ecclesiology. Calvinism is ONLY a soteriological system, not an ecclesiological system. -
Also making a Big push for Young Earth Creationism to be taught, as was against both John Stott/JI packer "accomodating" to modern science! -
- Graduating as many pastor/missionary students as possible to fill pulpits and other ministry positions
- Books and other teaching efforts that reach a wide audience
- Worship and music styles and content that speak a Reformed and biblical worldview
- Conferences, networks, blogs, articles, etc., that reach those who are not apt to pick up scholarly works in a more formalized and structured setting
Southern Seminary, the flagship seminary of the SBC and home to Dr. Mohler has increased student population from under 1000 during the last days of the liberal regime to over 4000 currently. I cannot speak to the enrollment figures of the other seminaries of the SBC, but they have all moved in a decidedly Reformed direction compared to where they were in the 1970s and earlier. (For the record, the aberration of liberalism and Arminian soteriology in the SBC began sometime after 1925, and actually closer to the advent of the 1950s -- long after other denominations, seminaries, and universities dedicated to the training of ministers had gone liberal.)
As for leading the church in subtle ways, that is the norm for most every preacher. It is a rare newly installed pastor that can come out swinging and run rampant over his flock with some favorite teaching. Additionally, the differences from the pulpit are indeed "subtle." As pastor and associational moderator for a very Arminian General Baptist church and association, I preached my most Calvinistic sermon - ever - to the annual meeting of the association. People were on their feet cheering, clapping, praising God, yelling Amen, etc., as I preached the doctrines of grace from 1 Peter 1. Had I sat down with the same folks in a round-table discussion and said that what I was teaching were the doctrines of grace, they would have tossed me out on my ear. In a sermon, based on the infallible and inerrant Scriptures, they not only accepted the teaching, they encouraged and took to heart what it was/is that God said.
I often preach like an Arminian, while holding the Reformed position. I see no disjunction between the two aspects in the preaching format. Those who CAN reach out to God do so because God is already at work in them. Those that think that they can only reach out to God on their own merits, and must do so before God begins a work in them are simply mistaken. If, however, after coming to an understanding about God's sovereignty, those same persons still argue for a very Pelagian soteriology, then they are rightly condemned, for they should know better but choose to remain in their rebellion against God. They will ultimately learn the error of their ways, but probably not before they stand before Holy God, who WILL judge whether the person "chooses or likes it," of not. Yes, God WILL ultimately drag EVERYONE kicking and screaming in whichever direction He chooses. It is only a matter of timing as to whether that happens now or later, and it will be the most sad day for those who end up in the later category. -
Sad day... -
It is too broad. It should have been more focused- on SBC or Baptists in general. That's what Colin Hansen and Ed Stetzer does.
Barna investigates only "For at least 10 years, Barna has tracked American non-Catholic "
That Pentecostalism is on the rise and most of them would claim "weslyan/arminian" leanings is not in dispute.
This would offset the rise of Calvinism among Baptists in a study that is so broad it only investigates "For at least 10 years, Barna has tracked American non-Catholic".
The FACT is not that Calvinism is taking over all non-catholic denominations. It is that it is growing rapidly among Baptists.
But NONE of us are competing with the Charasmatics, Assemblies and Pentecostals.
This is why scholarship should be defended with every fiber of our being rather than be snuffed at like it is being done by some here on baptistboard. -
Luke, I think you make a valid point regarding the scope of the studies. I'd be interested in seeing stats related to the SBC only.
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From my experience the Calvinistic pastors tend to have more longevity in their churches, so you are going to be hard pressed to find a "reformed" church where you can serve. Those I've seen where it has worked are those who take in young pastors as mentors to take over once they retire.
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