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Featured Isaiah 7:14 revisited

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rlvaughn, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    and why not from a text that is based on the Hebrew rather than the Greek, as the DSS seems more closely agreed with the LXX than the MT, which means that the NT writers could have used an Hebrew text that has not survived today?
     
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Temporarily laying aside the debate of the LXX relationship to the New Testament, what about the LXX considered as a translation on its on? If the Hebrews who translated the LXX translated 'alma into the Greek word for virgin, parthenos, then they believed that was what the Hebrew text meant here, and that indicates 'alma could mean a virgin.
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    The Vorlage text is a Hebrew text and it survives, in part, in the Qumran scrolls.
     
  4. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    you are right, I misread your earlier post which I commented on
     
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I don't like the RSV translation of Isaiah 7:14.

    I don't like the fact that the RSV omits 1 John 5:7 (Johannnine Comma).

    No translation is perfect.

    HankD (Former KJVO)
     
  6. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    some are more than others
     
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  7. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Solid evidence or not, it is clear that the NT writers often included renderings of OT passages that far more closely resembled what we know of the LXX than of the MT.

    Yet it is possible that the LXX represents more authentic renderings than the Masoretic rescension.

    Why is it a problem? The NT writers apparently thought it was inspired.

     
  8. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    How can you say that the NT writers thought that the LXX was inspired, as it is only a version of the actual Hebrew OT autographs? Unless you suppose that the Inspiration of the Bible also extends to human translations? In which case all can claim their translation is inspired by God. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls have shown that there is far greater agreement with this Hebrew text with the LXX, than the MT. It is this older Hebrew text of the original OT that I believe to be the basis of the NT quotations that resemble the LXX. Even though all the NT writers may not have known Hebrew, they could have done what the scholar Jerome did for his Latin Vulgate, he had Hebrew scholars working with him.
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    A Snip from : The Translators to the Reader

    The translation of the Seventy dissents from the Original in many places, neither does it come near it, for perspicuity, gravity, majesty; yet which of the Apostles did condemn it? Condemn it? Nay, they used it ...which they would not have done, nor by their example of using it, so grace commend it to the Churches if it had been unworthy the appellation and name of the word of God.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I was told by a rabbi several years ago that if an "almah" had never been married, her virginity was a gimme.
     
  11. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    you fail to understand that there is not only one Hebrew text of the Old Testament. The MT dates from about the 10th century A.D.. The Dead Sea Scrolls Hebrew Texts are far older, and the LXX Hebrew text is among this. It is this Hebrew text that the NT writers used.
     
  12. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I misspoke; what I should have said was that NT writers evidently accepted the LXX as faithfully representing the original.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The passage had an immediate application, and a later on one to birth of Jesus Himself.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There were using it at times, but it was not inspired, only their product was....
     
  15. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    says you. Matthew, whose words are Inspired by the Holy Spirit, says ONLY in Jesus Christ. Show how Isaiah 7:14 can refer to any human, when the child in question is עִמָּנוּאֵל?
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    And was also the child born at the time of Isaiah!
     
  17. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    you serious? There was a human child born, who is "God with us"?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I was referring to the Isaiah 7:14 passage!
     
  19. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and this verse says,

    "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."

    Which human child does this refer to?
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That refers to Jesus, but did they call him that though?
     
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