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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Sep 21, 2023.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think perhaps it is up to @percho to decide if my post is relevant to the OP. The point you missed, and which I addressed, was concerning the three hours of darkness ending at the 9th hour (3 pm).
    You asked about the meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21 and my reply gave no fewer than four Bible references. However, i do hope to post something on the union of the believer with Christ in due course, but my duties at the church I attend are keeping me very busy at present, so don't hold your breath.
     
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  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I started to quote John 17:4, but you already had. Bam! Suddenly! 4 "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."
     
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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Mat 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
     
  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Mitch!... I like your shirt... These lives sure did!... Brother Glen:)

    Revelation 7: 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    and these

    Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


     
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  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Because I believe this is relative to the OP, I would like to ask all:

    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:6

    Who did the LORD lay the iniquity of us all upon? Who is the LORD? Who is him?

    Did, the LORD laying the iniquity of us all, take place in a literal moment in time?
    Is that the same moment as the following in bold, "τὸν γὰρ μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν ? from 2 Cor 5:21
    Was Jesus saying, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me, relative to having the iniquity us us all being laid upon him.

    What was left to happen?

    Well death for one.
    What about maybe an answered prayer? The prayer John 17;5 'And now, glorify me, Thou Father, with Thyself, with the glory that I had before the world was, with Thee;
    The answer 1 Peter 1:21 who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God.
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It is finished, everything needed to be done has been finished by Christ, to save His People from their sins, everyone He died for is saved from their sins, and will be given Life Jn 6:33

    For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

    So they shall be saved by His Life on the premise of His death.
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    @percho


    Jesus Christ ! And the US is Gods chosen Sheep
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Does this include the regeneration that must occur in order for someone to believe according to reformed theology?
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, for His Resurrection was proof that His Death was successful, and when He sat down on the Right Hand of God, He was given the Holy Spirit so that He sends Him to regenerate all for whom He died. Acts 2:33

    Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    The Holy Spirit is given to Spiritually apply the finished work of Christ unto all for whom He died.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What Jesus said was finished was already finished prior to John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ."
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    A worthless comment. What Christ finished ensured the full salvation of all for whom He died, all the Father gave Him to save.
     
  12. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    They are the same people.
     
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  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Looks like God alone is in the regeneration business too!... Brother Glen:)

    John 5: 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    You mean Grace Theology

    1 John 4: 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    Tell us how you naturally birthed yourself!
     
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well using the logic of reformed theology, if God still has to regenerate you and then give you faith it cannot possibly be finished.
     
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  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Looks like whatever, "it," is, it is singular.
     
  17. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    That is nonsense. As Paul says,
    Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    That whole work was finished when Jesus said it was finished.

    God chose the Jewish nation when they rejected him over and over again. Why do you think God could choose the Jews and not His church? He did it for his glory and grace. The same applies in the following.

    1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    His finished Work is the basis, ground why the elect are regenerated and given faith, Christ earned it for them, and He sees to it they are given to them.
     
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  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So you have people saved before the foundation of the world or when Christ died? Either way it is not biblical. Romans 4:5
    Christ was "delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification."
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So you have people declared to be righteous before God before they even believe. Not a biblical view. Romans 3:21-26
     
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