1 Timothy 4:
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11 These things command and teach.
Now the verse states that the God in whom we trust is the Savior of all Anthropon, that mankind, all human beings.
Couple that with 1 John 2:2 Christ became the appeasement for sin not for the believers only but for the whole world. We see His payment for sin brought salvation to all. But we know not all will accept Him. That is the sentence for a crime is set, laid out by the Judge, then someone steps up and says I will go in their stead. Can someone step up and serve another person's sentence? Of course, is the price for the crime met by the person who serves the sentence, yes, does that make the person who committed the offense any less guilty, of course not. We are all guilty sinners but Jesus met the cost to appease God's requirement for sin and thus He became the Appeasement, Propitiation for our sin that is as we see from 1 Timothy 4:10 those who believe, but not for us only but for all anthropon.
Very clear how scripture works.
Now let me write the verse as some will say God has to give one Faith, let's see how this verse would sound: For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men in which I give Faith to, specially of those that I allow to believe.
That changes what was said by Paul tremendously, Paul clearly said that God is the Savior of all (mankind anthropon) especially to those who believe, you see those who believe receive the benefit of the Great Salvation Christ brings to all.
Jesus is the Savior of All, Especially those that Believe
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Mar 1, 2016.
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The term “limited atonement” addresses the question, “For whom did Christ die?” “Whose sin did he atone for?” “For whom did he purchase all the benefits of salvation?” But behind these questions of the extent of the atonement lies the equally important question about the nature of the atonement. What did Christ actually achieve on the cross for those for whom he died? That question will lead to a more accurate answer to the others.
If you say that he died for every human being in the same way, then you have to define the nature of the atonement very differently than you would if you believed that Christ, in some particular way, died for those who actually do believe. In the first case, you would believe that the death of Christ did not decisively secure the salvation of anyone; it only made all men savable so that something else would be decisive in saving them, namely their choice. In that case, the death of Christ did not actually remove the sentence of death and did not actually guarantee new life for anyone. Rather it only created possibilities of salvation which could be actualized by people who provide the decisive cause, namely, their faith. In this understanding of the atonement, faith and repentance are not blood-bought gifts of God for particular sinners, but are rather the acts of some sinners that make the blood work for them.
You begin to see how closely this doctrine of the atonement is connected with irresistible grace. What I think the Bible teaches is that this very irresistible grace is purchased by the blood of Jesus. The new birth is blood-bought. The effectual call is blood-bought. The gift of repentance is blood-bought. None of these acts of irresistible grace is deserved. They came to us because Christ secured them by his blood and righteousness. But that means, he did not secure them for all in the same way. Otherwise all would be born again, and all would be effectually called, and all would receive the gift of repentance.
So the personal and experiential question we face here is: Do we believe that Christ decisively secured for me the call and life and faith and repentance I now have? Or do I contribute these things from myself so that what he died to achieve counts for me? For if Christ died for all people in the same way, then his death did not infallibly obtain regenerating grace or faith or repentance for those who are saved. We must have regenerated ourselves without the blood-bought miracle of Christ, and we must have come to faith and repentance ourselves without the blood-bought gifts of faith and repentance.
In other words, if we believe that Christ died for all men in the same way, then the benefits of the cross cannot include the mercy by which we are brought to faith, because then all men would be brought to faith, but they aren’t. But if the mercy by which we are brought to faith (irresistible grace) is not part of what Christ purchased on the cross, then we are left to obtain our deliverance from deadness and blindness and rebellion another way. We are left to make our way into the safety of Christ another way, since he did not obtain this entrance (new birth, faith, repentance) for us when he died.
Who Really Limits the Atonement?
Therefore, it becomes evident that it is not the Particular Redemptionist who limits the atonement. It is those who deny that the atoning death of Christ accomplishes what we most desperately need — namely, salvation from the condition of deadness and hardness and blindness under the wrath of God. They limit the power and effectiveness of the atonement so that they can say that it was accomplished even for those who die in unbelief and are condemned. In order to say that Christ died for all men in the same way, they must limit the atonement to a possibility or an opportunity for salvation if fallen humans can escape from their deadness and rebellion and obtain faith by an effectual means not provided by the cross.
On the other hand, we do not limit the power and effectiveness of the atonement. Rather we say that in the cross, God had in view the actual, effective redemption of his children from all that would destroy them, including their own unbelief. And we affirm that when Christ died particularly for his bride, he did not simply create a possibility or an opportunity for salvation, but really purchased and infallibly secured for them all that is necessary to get them saved, including the grace of regeneration and the gift of faith.
We do not deny that Christ died to save all in some sense. Paul says in 1 Timothy 4:10 that in Christ God is “the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” What we deny is that the death of Christ is for all men in the same sense. God sent Christ to save all in some sense. And he sent Christ to save those who believe in a more particular sense. God’s intention is different for each. That is the natural way to read 1 Timothy 4:10.
For “all men” the death of Christ is the foundation of the free offer of the gospel. This is the meaning of John 3:16, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” The sending of the Son is for the whole world in the sense that Jesus makes plain: so that whoever believes in him should not perish. In that sense God sent Jesus for everyone. Or, to use the words of 1 Timothy 4:10, God is the “Savior of all people” in that Christ died to provide an absolutely reliable and valid offer of forgiveness to all, such that everyone, without exception, who trusts Christ would be saved.
When the gospel is preached, Christ is offered to all without discrimination. And the offer is absolutely authentic for all. What is offered is Christ, and anyone — absolutely anyone — who receives Christ receives all that he bought for his sheep, his bride. The gospel does not offer a possibility of salvation. It is the possibility of salvation. But what is offered is Christ, and in him the infinite achievement that he accomplished for his people by his death and resurrection.
I believe my faith is Christ centered and the faith of those who accept universal atonement is self centered. :( -
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He is the Savior of all (in a limited sense as I clearly pointed out) but in the special, eternal life sense, only to those who believe. (By the way, you believe exactly the same thing, unless you believe in universal salvation.)
The Savior saved me on the cross. Nothing needed to be added. He finished the entire work of satisfying the requirements of the law, the Righteousness of God, and the cleansing of my sin. There was nothing that was insufficient so there was nothing I needed to, or even could, add to the perfect sacrifice of Christ.
Those who believe in universal atonement have to either believe in universal salvation or believe the sacrifice of Christ was not complete, was not perfect, did not "finish" salvation, but rather was insufficient to bring about our salvation and something more needed to be added.
I keep asking the same question over and over and over again why two people hear the same message and one gets saved and the other doesn't. And all I get is cop outs. "I can't speak for my neighbor." Or something like that. No, but you can speak for yourself and the question is "what about you was better than your neighbor that resulted in your salvation?" For the universalist there is no honest answer to that question. :( -
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So, your salvation is based on what you did, and that you were better than your neighbor? -
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Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Because the Pharisees trusted in themselves that they were righteous and they despised others who they saw as unrighteous.
Matthew 18:4 applies to all who are saved, Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
We must come to Him humbly admitting we are a sinner and need a Savior to pay for our sins, which Jesus has done. We just need to accept the free gift of Salvation offered by the efficacious work of Christ on the cross of Calvary as he took upon Himself sins penalty and died for all mankind. It is those who come to humbly to Him by the drawing of the Holy Spirit who will be saved. Those who harden their hearts continually till they die will be condemned, because they believed not on the Son.
Edit added:
Proverbs 16:17-19 answers your question why one rejects and the other accepts too,
17 The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.
18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Those who come to Christ must come humbly before Him. -
So you are saying that you are saved because you are humble, unlike your neighbor who is not humble like you but is full of pride?
Isn't that what the parable is about? The Pharisee thinking he was better than the publican? Just as you think you, due to your good work of humility, are better than your neighbor who was not humble enough to deserve salvation like you? -
Edit:
Psalms 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Not one of these shows anything about a man's good works all come with an humbel and contrite Heart and that brings them salvation. All who come to Christ must c9ome humbly before Him,
We see too Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
We must walk humbly with god for we know nothing of the Spirit without the Spirit dwelling and filling us.
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
All are called and told to come but Whosoever will, let him take the water freely, what water the living water Jesus offered the Samaritan woman.
All are called to come, but not all answer the call, whosoever will may come to Him and receive the living Water He has to offer. How do they come in humbleness of spirit with a contrite heart. -
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And how can you have it both ways? If you are not better than your neighbor, that is, not more humble than he, how could you, by your own statement "came humbly to Christ?" And he, if he were the same as you, just as humble, didn't come. Why not? -
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Psalms 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
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