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Featured Jesus THE Creator - Part 1

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    If one person within the Godhead “sends” another, doesn’t that depict functional subordination?

    When Jesus said He would “send” God Holy Spirit after His resurrection, doesn’t that depict functional subordination?

    peace to you
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Unless one is into Universalism, would support Limited Atonement!
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I think the real problem happens when we speak of Jesus being Begotten of the father, and the Spirit from Father and Jesus!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Son was also the One who created Adam and Eve, and spoke to them in the garden!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is there any difference between functional and eternal subordination?
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God did not cause anything apart from His Son. The Son does all He does for His Father. John 1:3, ". . . without him was not any thing made that was made. Hebrews 1:3, ". . . upholding all things by [δια] the word of his power, . . ." Ephesians 3:9, ". . . God, who created all things by [δια] Jesus Christ: . . ."
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    how can God be dependent upon anyone else to sustain/begot Him?
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you believe that all are in Adam destined for hell unless saved by the grace of God?
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God Created the heavens and and the earth...1:26, "let US make man in OUR Image, and after OUR Likeness"

    God is masculine plural in the Greek, the US and OUR represent the plurality of Persons in the Godhead. ALL Three Persons Created JOINITLY.
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Take a human example. A company has three EQUAL directors. They AGREE that one of them will go on a business trip, so in affect the 2 "sent" they other 1, but this they did through mutual agreement. Neither were any less or greater than the other.
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    is this for me?
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Creation is pre-Incarnation, which time there was no "subordination" of Persons in the Godhead for any purpose. The Bible says in Genesis 1:1, "in the beginning God Created", is this the Jesus Christ, or the Father, or the Holy Spirit? Or, The Three, working together?
     
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    yes, only post-Incarnation->Ascension.
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, I can see someone may think of functional subordination as a temporary condition unique to the incarnation ministry which ended at the resurrection.

    Eternal subordination, imo, would mean God has always existed as three equal persons within the Godhead with functional subordination of two of those persons even when only God existed.

    peace to you
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Contrast with passages that identify God as creating through Jesus

    peace to you
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    none say that God created "through" Jesus. I have dealt with this at length in the OP
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks

    peace to you
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    If there is no "subordination" there can be no Persons. Only One. A second, a third is a form of subordination.
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Are you denying the doctrine of the Trinity?

    Peace to you
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Note the Order of Persons

    1. Matthew 28:19,

    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

    2. 2 Corinthians 13:14,

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"

    3. Ephesians 4:4-6

    "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

    Who, is subordinate to Who? This in itself shows that The Three are 100% COEQUAL. Take a look at the OP, where I have shown from 1 Corinthians 1:9, where God the Father is working "on behalf of" Jesus Christ. This is "subordination". In Galatians 1:1, both Jesus and the Father JOINTLY send Paul as an Apostle. Note the order of Persons here, Jesus First, then the Father. Like in John 10:28-29, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.". Again, Jesus is First!
     
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