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Jesus VS today’s gospel of the kingdom

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 1689Dave, Aug 8, 2020.

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  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you reject the kingdom, you reject the King.
     
    #101 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you reject the kingdom, you reject the King.
     
    #102 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Which happened with Catholicism's, papal Antichrist and is happening with those who look for a third temple.
     
    #103 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    You seem very close to questioning my salvation.
     
    #104 Squire Robertsson, Aug 12, 2020
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Many of God's elect are deceived today. I spent years in such a state.
     
    #105 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  6. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I am not looking for a 3rd temple but for the Blessed Hope!

    Why is a friendly debate about eschatology about apostasy of an opposing viewpoint when you do not know the future anymore than what Scripture says, Dave?

    The destruction of the 2nd temple was no more significant than the destruction of the 1st temple in the history of the Jews. The internet news and even before is full of stories about how Jews are getting ready to build and furnish a 3rd temple. Contrary to your opinion, I have nothing to do with things in Israel.
     
    #106 church mouse guy, Aug 12, 2020
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The third temple is part of Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. Remember, the early Church condemned this a heresy and for good reason.
     
    #107 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  8. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Link?
     
    #108 church mouse guy, Aug 12, 2020
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Where is your Antichrist seated?
     
    #109 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Huh?
     
    #110 church mouse guy, Aug 12, 2020
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe a system you know little about?
     
    #111 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Look, you made a statement that you could not back up or didn't want to bother to try to back.

    Everyone knows that American evangelicals and fundamentalists are the main advocates of dispensationalism, which you say started around 1800.

    Why don't you just tell us your preterism history, which is a minority doctrine.
     
    #112 church mouse guy, Aug 12, 2020
  13. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    So, if a third temple is built, you will immediately renounce your position?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #113 Derf B, Aug 12, 2020
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  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    What statement can I not back up? Jesus taught Amillennialism. Peter preached it at Pentecost. I believe it. And the creeds declare premillennialism heresy.
     
    #114 1689Dave, Aug 12, 2020
  15. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    "The third temple is part of Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. Remember, the early Church condemned this a heresy and for good reason." That is what you said. I would like to know how the early church condemned Dispensationalism when you say that it was not enunciated until 1800? And I would like a link to where the early church condemned Premillennialism?
     
    #115 church mouse guy, Aug 12, 2020
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  16. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    I think Mouse has you on that one, @1689Dave! Hard to condemn something that doesn’t exist yet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #116 Derf B, Aug 12, 2020
  17. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Here is what the RCC teaches:

    The fundamental idea of millenarianism, as understood by Christian writers, may be set forth as follows: At the end of time Christ will return in all His splendour to gather together the just, to annihilate hostile powers, and to found a glorious kingdom on earth for the enjoyment of the highest spiritual and material blessings; He Himself will reign as its king, and all the just, including the saints recalled to life, will participate in it. At the close of this kingdom the saints will enter heaven with Christ, while the wicked, who have also been resuscitated, will be condemned to eternal damnation. The duration of this glorious reign of Christ and His saints on earth, is frequently given as one thousand years. Hence it is commonly known as the "millennium", while the belief in the future realization of the kingdom is called "millenarianism" (or "chiliasm", from the Greek chilia, scil. ete).

    This term of one thousand years, however, is by no means an essential element of the millennium as conceived by its adherents. The extent, details of the realization, conditions, the place, of the millennium were variously described. Essential are the following points:

    • the early return of Christ in all His power and glory,
    • the establishment of an earthly kingdom with the just,
    • the resuscitation of the deceased saints and their participation in the glorious reign,
    • the destruction of the powers hostile to God, and,
    • at the end of the kingdom, the universal resurrection with the final judgment, after which the just will enter heaven, while the wicked will be consigned to the eternal fire of hell.
    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Millennium and Millenarianism
     
    #117 church mouse guy, Aug 12, 2020
  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Which ones and how so?
     
    #118 Squire Robertsson, Aug 22, 2020
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  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Millennium is a Pharisee Doctrine.


    First, MILLENNIUM: MILLENNIUM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
    By: Joseph Jacobs, A. Biram

    Table of Contents

    Messianic Period an Interregnum.

    The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also “chiliasm,” designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 (“And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish”); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29. Neither here nor in later Jewish literature is the duration of this Messianic reign fixed. It is clear, however, that the rule of the Messiah was considered as an interregnum, from the fact that in many passages, such as Pes. 68a, Ber. 34b, Sanh. 91b and 99a, Shab. 63a, 113b, and 141b, a distinction is made between and , although it must be noted that some regarded the Messianic rule as the period of the fulfilment of the prophecies, while others saw in it the time of the subjugation of the nations.


    So it is no wonder it found its way into the first century Church comprised mainly of Jews.


    But in time, the church condemned it as heresy. First, According to the Nicene Creed

    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

    And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

    Sproul, R. C. (Ed.). (2015). The Reformation Study Bible: English Standard Version (2015 Edition) (p. 2389). Orlando, FL: Reformation Trust.

    And condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431 in two ways.


    “In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned

    Pelagianism, [2] and rejected premillennialism (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papias,

    Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius) in favor of amillennialism (Clement of

    Alexandria, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine of Hippo): "Augustine's

    explanation became Church doctrine when it was adopted as the definitive

    explanation of the millennium by the Council of Ephesus in 431."[35]


    Secondly, “Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea (325)” This affirmed Jesus “shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.” Thereby denouncing premillennialism and the doctrines leading up to and including Dispensationalism of the 1800s.


    Retrieved from "Council of Ephesus - Wikipedia"
     
    #119 1689Dave, Aug 23, 2020
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  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    To say that the Kingdom shall have no end is not contradicted by a thousand year reign. Earth will be burnt up and we shall move to Heaven and the New Jerusalem but once Jesus returns to earth, His kingdom and reign shall have no end.
     
    #120 church mouse guy, Aug 23, 2020
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