1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Job's Resurrection Verse: Job 19:25-26

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Sep 10, 2014.

Top Posters
Page 2 of 5
  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    By the same token one could argue the same for the crucifixion, that it would mean little if it was only temporary. Perhaps my problem is my insistence on the Bible as the definitive source. Where in all of Scripture do you see glorification of believers linked with physical bodies?

    We have to divest ourselves from what culture has taught us and actually look at what Scripture teaches.
     
    #21 asterisktom, Sep 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2014
  2. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Some of the things you are asserting I am not denying. But, for want of time, I want to focus especially on 1 Cor. 15. I believe that chapter proves less than you think. It says othing about our having physical bodies at the resurrection. Rather it teaches us that we will have bodies like Christ had. But more on this in a separate thread. Actually I see I wrote earlier on this here:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=75928

    This was a thread I had to abandon because of my sudden lack of connectedness here in China. Very frustrating.

    Now I really do need to leave the computer. More later.
     
    #22 asterisktom, Sep 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2014
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    asterisktom


    Hello AT...
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/开.../data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x406e0dd6cf66646e?hl=en
    Not trying to interrupt your discussion with GT....was curious about your understanding of 2cor5-
    5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

    4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    In verse 2 my understanding was that the words to be clothed upon was used of a baby bird being clothed upon with feathers....I believe that would be our eternal house or body...whatever a Spiritual body is.
     
    #23 Iconoclast, Sep 10, 2014
  4. prophet

    prophet Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,037
    Likes Received:
    2
    Act 12:22-23
    22 And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.
    23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory:and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
     
    #24 prophet, Sep 10, 2014
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, that's not your problem.

    This body will be raised a spiritual body. Those who are alive and remain will be similarly changed.

    You can't get out it. We will be raised in exactly the way that Christ was raised. He raised Himself, He will raise us. And when we see Him, we shall be like Him.

    Pretty straightforward, cut and dried. Do I really need to supply the references?
     
    #25 Aaron, Sep 10, 2014
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I also posted a bit in that thread.

    The man dies. The man that was once a living soul. The once living soul when he breathed his last breath of spirit life which came from God passes through the gates (death) of Hades into Hades. The man is dead and the house of the man's tabernacle corrupts away.

    The man must be born again and or raised from the dead and or changed and as 1 Cor 15:35 asks, in what body will that dead man be raised?

    Jesus the Christ who came by the water and the blood, born of the virgin Mary was raised from the realm of the dead (thou shall not leave my soul in Hades) no more to return to corruption. Neither did his flesh see corruption. God his Father gave Jesus his Son the sure mercies of David.

    In his house from heaven incorruptible and eternal.
     
    #26 percho, Sep 10, 2014
  7. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,214
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Really... you are going to make that argument about the Jewishness of the OT when you are using concepts foreign to the ANE culture of the Jews and advocating western philosophical dualism???
     
    #27 Greektim, Sep 11, 2014
  8. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,214
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree... you need to put aside the neo-platonic conceptualism of heaven and the supernatural world and try to think in a pre-modern ANE mindset where heaven and earth were interconnected w/ one another.
     
    #28 Greektim, Sep 11, 2014
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, to deny the future apsect of His second coming, and to see that there is no physical resuurection of the dead in christ has always been labeled as heresy by the church!
     
    #29 Yeshua1, Sep 11, 2014
  10. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist


    Wow. Tedious verbosity and rashness all in the same post.

    Bodily resurrection.Maybe you can begin your defense of the bodily resurrection of Christians by starting with those passages that explicitly mention this. Oh wait...
     
    #30 asterisktom, Sep 12, 2014
  11. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My understanding here, as far as I can tell, is that Paul is speaking of the corporate body, not of individuals. The "house" here would be the same as some other uses of house elsewhere in his epistles. "House", "temple", "body" are sometimes used by Paul this way, though other times he uses the same term referring to individuals.

    I'd be glad to elaborate more if you want. I meant to get to these posts sooner. Some unnecessary drama here in the Middle Kingdom called me away.
     
    #31 asterisktom, Sep 12, 2014
  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ah, got it. We will be raised in exactly the same way He was raised.

    And how was He raised? You said it yourself - He raised Himself.

    So ... we will raise ourselves too?

    I'm just following your logic.

    I hope you see that there are some differences between Christ's resurrection and ours.
    1. He raised Himself. He was also raised up. Scripture says both. But this cannot be said of us.
    2. He was raised for our justification (Romans 1). This cannot be said of us.
    3. He was raised as a demonstration of victory, triumphing openly over His enemies. This cannot be said of us.
    4. He was raised in a body still showing the visble proofs, scars, of His suffering and dying for us. This cannot be said of us.
    5. He was raised as proof that He had fulfilled all righteousness. We, on the other, are raised in order to walk in that righteousness the Lord bought for us.
    Yes. We shall be like Him. It is called Christlikeness.
    No. I know the references.
     
    #32 asterisktom, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2014
  13. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You need to put aside the arcane terminology and deal with what I wrote. Is it Scriptural or not? If not, show me from Scripture. Your pinning strange labels on me is vaguely irritating, but nothing more. Irritating because I don't know what the heck you are talking about. What exactly is an ANE?
     
    #33 asterisktom, Sep 12, 2014
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I answered this too.

    No, you're not. The One that raised Him will raise us. The same power that raised Him will raise us.

    You see, you arbitrarily attach meanings to things that aren't even implied. If you so misconstrue the words of men, then what are you doing with the words of God?

    Clarify one thing for me. Is there a future bodily resurrection for the saints?
     
    #34 Aaron, Sep 12, 2014
  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You refuse to see that Christ's resurrection and ours is inherently and Scripturally different. And yet you are asking me to clarify? You will just ignore what doesn't fit your paradigm.

    But, no, we will not have a physical resurrection. If by "bodily" you mean "physical, then my answer is no. We will, each and every one of us, have a spiritual resurrection.
     
    #35 asterisktom, Sep 12, 2014
  16. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, it certainly has - for most, but not the very earliest of the church's history.

    Of course, many tenets that have come out of the Reformation have also been labeled as heresy by the church.
     
    #36 asterisktom, Sep 12, 2014
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481

    Whom I shall see for myself, and MINE EYES shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. - v. 27

    Obviously you have a theological bias when coming to this text as do those you quote. He is speaking of his physical body, its destruction and its restoration as it is with "MINE EYES" he beholds him and that is said in spite that "my reins be consumed within me." He is obviously speaking of His future hope of seeing His redeemer in his resurrected body if one has no bias or axe to grind. He calls him his "redeemer" in lieu of the destruction of his body!!!! If the body is not the object of this redemption than this expression is an exercise of futility rather than redemption!
     
    #37 The Biblicist, Sep 12, 2014
  18. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, Ancient Near Eastern is an oh so obscure term, has no relevancy to an OP about the book of Job.
    :BangHead:
     
    #38 Jerome, Sep 12, 2014
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is that a future thing, or has it already happened?
     
    #39 Aaron, Sep 12, 2014
  20. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    2
    Just out of curiosity, then, what do take from Paul's writing at the end of 1 Corinthians 15: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (verses 52-54).

    The corruptible putting on incorruption sounds an awful lot like a physical/bodily resurrection to me. Based off David's writing in Psalms, stating that the Holy One would not see corruption.
     
    #40 PreachTony, Sep 12, 2014
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 5
Loading...