John 5:25-29??

Brother, part of the problem here with your using the underlined/red portion is the fact that this is not referring to a soteriological call, but a call to final judgment.

A completely different topic.

Thus it falls short of a good proof text in support of your theory.

I believe God must quicken those who are saved. But you are already aware of this being my belief. :love2: :wavey:

 

That's what I said! Nobody listens to me. :tear:

:smilewinkgrin:

 

Did not! :smilewinkgrin: :laugh:

 

Did too!!!! You just can't read! :eek:

Did I say thaaaat? LOL

 

No, but you sure typed it! Where's that 'report' button!!! :tear::laugh:

 

Willis...if you keep leaving out important words...you will never get it...

here is what I said....

See Willis....savingly......

 

This is where Calvinism has an impossible problem. A person is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins until they believe and their sins are forgiven.

So how did they hear and understand the gospel before they believed? You have to hear the gospel and understand it before you can believe it, but you are not spiritually alive until you believe it.

The Philipian jailer is a good example that refutes Calvinism. He desired to be saved, he was willing to listen to Paul and Silas, but he was still spiritually dead in sins. He had not believed yet, he did not even know he had to believe until Paul told him. And he did not know what to believe until he took Paul home and heard the gospel. And he had to understand the gospel to believe it.

The Philipian jailer was spiritually dead until he believed and his sins were forgiven, yet he desired to hear the gospel before he believed, and he understood the gospel before he believed.

So, Calvinism presents an impossible contradiction. They claim a man is spiritually alive before he believes and his sins are forgiven. This is impossible.

 

1. If he can't hear, what is there to reject? He can't reject something he can't hear. If you were in a soundproof room and someone gave you a command you would not be able to reject the command. Nice and easy...right?! :)

2. If you are a believer, you are already saved. Giving salvation to believers makes no sense.

 

actually the type of call is irrelevant if spoken to a corpse, no?

 

It's quite relevant because in this particular verse Jesus is speaking about the final judgment and they WILL rise when He says so.

 

Which further supports Willis' point the spiritually dead can and do respond apart from regeneration.

Willis, check and mate :)

 

Yes, Calvinism is absurd. It teaches you must be made alive so you can believe to have life.

Why would someone who is already spiritually alive need to believe on Jesus? They are already alive, they are already born again, so why do they need to believe?

And this is what is so wrong about Calvinism, it does not teach that you are made alive when you believe on Jesus, it teaches you are made alive without Jesus. Oh, they throw Jesus in there, but only after you already have life.

 

We also see from IC's post a clear contradiction. He states those in hell (unregenerated) can and do understand the doctrines of grace. Were they regenerated before being cast into the Lake of Fire?

 

No it doesn't. Jesus isn't calling them to salvation.

 

It's all a bunch of double-talk.

 

Are you asking if they were born again before being cast into the lake of fire?

 

We are going in circles. Its irrelevant. I've been hearing from your side for 7 years corpses can do nothing, period. If the spiritually dead can respond to ANYTHING it refutes the entire argument regeneration is required to both hear and respond. JBH I believe has even embraced this fact.

 

Amy, does Calvinism teach you obtain life by believing on Jesus? No, they teach you are made alive without Jesus. They teach that God regenerates you and makes you spiritually alive before you can hear, understand, and believe the gospel. You already have life without Jesus. They are cutting Jesus completely out of the picture, making him secondary.

They separate having life from being saved, which is ridiculous. If you have life you are already saved and would not need to believe on Jesus.

Why do you need to believe on Jesus to have life if you already have life?

If you cannot see how serious a problem this is, I don't know what else to tell you.

 

Wouldn't they have to be in order to understand salvation as the rich man did (which IC also stated)?

God won't regenerate a person to respond to his call on earth...but he will allow them to "hear" once he punishes them? That is justice...how? :confused:

 

Willis, do you mind if i throw the verse in my signature into the mix? (Isaiah 1:18)

Since Amy, IC and The Sidekick want to separate spiritual inability into salvation/non salvation categories, how does this verse apply? God clearly "reasoning" with the unregenerate...salvifically.