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John Calvin on The Extent of Jesus' Death

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jun 17, 2021.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    not so....you are drifting into vain jangling. Calvinism.is not dependent on Calvin, but rather
    Jesus.
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    then prove the OP wrong!
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    sure...when the time comes that someone wants an answer..you do not
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is post # 44 on this, and not ONE person has disproven the OP!
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Particular (i.e. Calvinist) Baptist Confession, 1689, 10:3. Infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who works when, where and how He pleases (John 3:3-6, 8). So also are all elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the word.

    One may agree or disagree with this statement, but there is no mention in it of babies being 'given faith.' More falsehood and obfuscation by Van, whom I now leave to his errors (Proverbs 20:3)..
     
    #45 Martin Marprelate, Jun 19, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    another typical abuse of Scriptures by the Calvinists. There is ZERO evidence in the passage of John 3, that even remotely suggets that Jesus is speaking of the automatic salvation of infants that die. They also see "election" in this chapter, which is not there! "confessions" are MAN MADE, the Bible Is The ONLY Word of God!
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Calvin on Ephesians 1:4. 'According as He has chosen us.' 'The foundation and the first cause of our calling, and indeed of all the blessings we receive from God, is here defined to be His eternal election. If we ask why God has called us to enjoy the gospel, why He daily showers on us so many good things, why He opens up the gates of heaven to us, the answer is always discovered in this principle - that "He has chosen us before the creation of the world."

    Plenty more where that came from!
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I fully agree with you that he Bible is the ONLY Word of God, and indeed, the 1689 Confession makes that very point in its opening statement.. 'The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith and obedience,' so I'm glad to see that you are in full agreement with it ;)

    But how am I to answer @Van's nonsense about what Calvinists believe without making reference to a Calvinist document?
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    yeah, you speak of Van's "nonsense", and then give your own "nonsense" from a "confession" that does not reflect what the Bible actually does say! You are trying to force Scripture to provide evidence for a teaching that the passage does not speak of.
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am well aware of the confusion by most Reformed/Calvinists on the so called "doctrines of grace", as they really don't know or understand what they themselves actually believe! Calvin on the Death of Jesus Christ, as being universal, for the entire human race, which is what he did teach, as the OP is clear. This then makes "election to salvation" impossible, as they are contrary, to each other
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think you might do well to heed Proverbs 20:17. If you want to start yet another thread on infant salvation, be my guest.
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    :rolleyes:
    Calvin on John 6:37. 'All that the Father giveth Me.' 'That their unbelief may not detract from His taching, He says that the cause of their obstinacy is that they are reprobate and outside God's flock. He here distinguishes between the elect and the reprobate, so that the authority of His teaching may stand firm even though many do not believe it. For not only do the ungodly detract from the Word of God and despise it because they are unmoved by reverence for it, but many who are weak and ignorant doubt whether what is rejected by a large part of the world is really God's word. Christ deals with this stumbling-block when He denies that any unbelievers are His own; and there is no wonder if the truth of God is distasteful to them but is embraced by all the children of God.
    In the first place He says that all whom the Father gives Him come to Him. By these words He means that faith is not at men's disposal, so that this man and that man may believe indiscriminately and by chance, but that God elects those whom He hands over, as it were, to His Son. For when He sys that whatever is given comes, we infer that not all are given. Again, we deduce that God works in the elect by such an efficacy of the Spirit that none of them falls away........

    'And him that cometh to Me.....' This is added for the consolation of the godly, that they maybe fully persuaded that they have a clear way to Christ by faith, and that as soon as they commit themselves to His faithfulness and care, He will receive them kindly. Hence it follows that the teaching of the Gospel will be beneficial to all the godly, because none offers Himself as Christ's disciple who does not in return feel and experience Him to be a faithful and true teacher.

    If you will look more carefully at the Calvin extracts that you posted in the O.P., you will see that none of them, properly understood, contradicts the Biblical doctrines of election and efficacious redemption.
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the quotes in the OP are from John Calvins own commentaries. if his other writings contradict this, then he was a double-minded man.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Behold the falsehoods used to defend the false doctrines of Calvinism!!

    2Peter 2:1 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves." Thus non-believers were bought by Jesus. And being bought does not result by itself salvation as some are still headed for swift destruction. Christ's death purchased the means of salvation for humanity, but only those God places into Christ are saved.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again we see Calvinists disavowing their own doctrine and then claiming my presentation of their true doctrine is false. On and on folks...
     
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  17. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as "hyper-Calvinism". What men call "hyper Calvinism" is simply "consistent Calvinism".
    Their problem is that their tender conscience will not allow them to stare it in the face as the logical terminus of Calvinism.
    To restrict Theistic Determinism to soteriology alone is inconsistent.
    In Calvinism, by as much as God is the cause of redemption, so must he also be the cause of sin.
    Anything else is unbalanced.
    Remember, in your system, foreknowledge = predestination.
    If God foreknew Adam's fall, then he causally predestinated Adam's fall.
    What you call "hypers" are simply more "honest" (albeit with a seared conscience).
    They don't shy away from the logic of their system when it comes to the fall.
     
    #57 George Antonios, Jun 19, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what falsehood should people behold?
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    George, it seems you reject God being omniscient as it seems you reject God having foreknowledge. You equate foreknowledge with causing. It's like you are accusing God.
     
  20. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Austin, it seems you know you are making a false accusation.

    No, Calvinism does when it states that God foreknows the future only by predetermining it.
     
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