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Featured John R. Rice, Jack Hyles, and the KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Jan 4, 2021.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The controversy on the later moral problems of Hyles would take several threads to relate. My uncle, Dr. Walt Handford, was a very close friend of Hyles. He heard the accusations from the husband of the accused woman, and it literally incapacitated him for a whole week. He then approached Hyles for his side of it, and was completely rejected. Having obeyed the Scripture in that regard, he then took the news public through an open letter, and the controversy was off and running. Then Bob Sumner published an article in his paper, The Biblical Evangelist, and things exploded from there.

    I was involved in the controversy in a small way. As a missionary supported by his church, I was asked to sign a card saying that I completely supported all of the ministries of him and his church. Having 50 supporting churches, I thought that was ridiculous, so he said they would drop our support. He was gracious enough to say they would not do it until our next furlough, was years away. It wasn't that much anyway, but the thing is, they never did drop us! Someone had a conscience there.
     
    #101 John of Japan, Jan 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Among others who demanded absolute loyalty...

    Hitler

    Napoleon

    Mao Zedong

    Pol Pot

    Chiang Kai-Shek

    Genghis Khan

    Just a short list...
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Hyles went completely overboard on the KJVO myth. About the only ones who go along with his "Salvation only thru the KJV" are those whose tractors don't make full pulls, such as "Pastor" Steve Anderson, who's stated he WORSHIPS the KJV.
     
  4. timtofly

    timtofly Active Member

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    When it is a commentary and not a translation. Shakespeare is not a commentary. Shakespeare adds scripture into his plays. It is not really a translation or commentary. That is the point.


    People think that translations are not duplicate copies for some reason. Do other authors besides God, blame translators, people in other languages misunderstand their intent? Yes, I understand that languages have barriers in exact word for word copies. Do people even understand why?

    It is the backlash of higher criticism that is ingrained in all aspects of Bible interpretation. People who think only the original words have some hidden interpretation that only the enlightened can understand. I ask, why? Why has higher criticism replaced the job of the Holy Spirit?

    Why put emphasis on our ability to take God's Word to other languages? What in the world has that to do with "500" different versions of the Bible in English? One could also translate all "500" English versions in different languages. One still has to decide which one is God's Word, no?

    If we can accept that the Septuagent was the work of 70 different scribes, working individually, not as a group, then perhaps we should trust God and do it that way for every translation to see if 70 modern day scribes could agree with God, instead of each other.
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    That is the truth. Translations are not duplicate copies of the original-language words of Scripture. Accurate copies have the same words in the same language as the copy from which they were made. Translations have different words in a different language.

    Are you trying to deny the truth?

    According to their marginal notes in the 1611 edition, the KJV translators sometimes acknowledged that they did not provide an English rendering for some words in their underlying original-language texts and they indicated that they added many words in English for which they had no original-language words of Scripture.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes he held that any mistakes in Greek and Hebrew texts used would be fixed in the Kjv!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did not seem to be in textual criticism!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Some extremists in Kjvo even have the Logos of John being the Kjv!
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Certainly not!
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I still don't really know what you are getting at. I see no comparison with Shakespeare to what you have been saying. Pastors have Scripture quotes in their sermons. Does that make them like Shakespeare?
    I still don't know what you are getting at with this. It is impossible for a translation to be a duplicate copy. Ask any translator, secular or Bible translators. Ask any United Nations interpreter. Ask the idiotic Japanese politician who used the word mokusatsu (黙殺) in answer to the Potsdam Declaration, thus insuring that Japan would be A-bombed.
    You are mistaken in your understanding of the term "higher criticism." It is not "ingrained in all aspects of Bible interpretation." Evangelicals and fundamentalists do not use higher criticism in their hermeneutics, and it does not refer to "some hidden interpretation" in the originals. I suggest you learn what higher criticism really is: a practice by liberal "scholars" aimed at the authorship, provenance, originality, etc., of the Bible.

    And there is nothing "enlightened" about being able to read the original languages. It takes hard work and many, many hours of study. I had my Greek students do a "review program" of the many conjugations of the Greek verb luo (λύω) over the Christmas break, and several have been talking to me in recent days about how they did. You cannot--CANNOT--learn Greek or Hebrew without serious dedication and many hours of hard work. So to say that we advocate "enlightenment" when we stand for the authority of the Bible in the original languages is absurd.
    How about the Great Commission? Bible translation into all of the languages of the world is implicit in the Great Commission. Anyone who argues against missionary Bible translation is sinning against the last command of Christ on earth.
    This is meaningless in regards to Christ-honoring, Christ-obeying Bible translation. Christ never commanded any specific number of translators. The translation I led from the TR into Japanese usually had just two translators, sometimes 3-5. Why? There are few who are qualified and have the burden. Luke 10:2--"Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest."
     
  11. timtofly

    timtofly Active Member

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    So? Do you know the mind of the Holy Spirit on the work done? There are some Hebrew words with no English or Greek equivalents. It still goes back to higher criticism or the Holy Spirit. Who do you trust?
     
  12. timtofly

    timtofly Active Member

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    Is the point that the Holy Spirit can use God's Word?

    It is rather simple and not complicated at all. Why make it so?
     
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well, I certainly do believe this, but I made a number of points--which remain unanswered.
    Because I keep asking you questions that you refuse to answer, and refuting your points in ways you refuse to recognize. For example, if you could only figure out what higher criticism actually is. :p

    Tell you what. Here's a link for you to study up on the actual meaning of "higher criticism," as opposed to how you used it: Higher Criticism | Encyclopedia.com

    Educate yourself!
     
    #113 John of Japan, Jan 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I have had trouble finding anything very specific on his education, other than at Bob Jones University. Ruckmanism.org does have this:
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I've written a certain person for information on this. We'll see if he knows.

    Oh, yes, and I almost forgot. BJU revoked his PhD at some point. That doesn't mean he quit calling himself a PhD, though. ;)
     
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    On what basis?
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Apparently his radicalism on the KJV. I have no direct source--just what I heard back in the day.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    From Ruckman's own Bible Baptist Bookstore site:

    "Dr. Peter S. Ruckman (November 19, 1921 - April 21, 2016) received his Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Alabama and finished his formal education with six years of training at Bob Jones University (four full years and two accelerated summer sessions), completing requirements for the Master of Arts and Doctor of Philosophy degree."
     
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  19. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Pensacola News Journal, May 1950: Ruckman, studying for the ministry at BJU, being ordained by Brent Baptist Church (pastor was Sword of the Lord's Hugh Pyle).
    hugh pyle.jpg
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Youth for Christ!!!
     
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