I see this topic coming up quite a bit here. Here's some food for thought:
From THE END OF THE WICKED CONTEMPLATED BY THE RIGHTEOUS:
Jonathan Edwards on the Destruction of the Wicked
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Monergist, Jun 15, 2005.
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MOnergist,
I beat you to the punch.... Did you see my post on the Dirty thread?
They don't want to the proper theology.... they just want to see man as the center of their universe... even in heaven they are man centered! -
Odd that Edwards seem to get this part right - about the saints SEEING the torment of the wicked!!
In Christ,
Bob -
Hence the CFS --
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Here we see Calvinism’s view of God who (arbitrarily from the POV of human eyes) selects out the FEW of Matt 7 and loves THEM alone - and then represents that to Calvinists as "So Loving the World". Oh the pure joy that thought must cause the Calvinist mind.
</font>[/QUOTE]Calvinist future scenario complete!
Notice the “focus” in that perfect Calvinist utopian future - is always on “you” the one that is arbitrarily selected and then justifying the callous disregard of your precious child under the guise of “Well God does not HAVE to care about ANYONE just be glad YOU made it”.
Fascinating!
All well and good for the Cavlinist position - but what about the Arminian view?
And for us Arminians (and our 3-Pt Calvinist Bretheren) - well we will just have to be content with the fact that God really DOES "So Love the World" not merely the "Few " of Matt 7 - and He is the "Atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT our sins only - but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2::2.
We will have to be content in all eternity with the God that DOES Love ALL and died for ALL and "IS not WILLING for any to perish but for ALL to come to Repentance". Somehow that will have to help us enjoy eternity too. I wonder how we will fair by comparison.
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In Christ,
Bob -
THE big problem with that scenario "of course" is that a calvinist god would not even allow one MOMENT of love care and concern for one's lost little girl as the parent SEEs her being tormented in the flames!
1 Cor 13 predictions about LOVE NOT being the thing that ENDS in heaven -- not withstanding.
AFter all in every system you become "MORE" like the god you worship when you get to heaven - not LESS!
In Christ,
Bob -
The Arminian God is a weeping mess of helplessness who pleads with sinners and finally (grudgingly) sends them to an eternity in hell because they rejected Christ. There is no triumph over sin here- no victory, and no joy. It is only sadness because these poor damned souls did not make the right choice. What foolishness Arminianism is.
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Yeah and what about that Bible saying that SAME THING?? We should do a little cut-ang-paste all-for-Calvinism to put a stop to that nonsense!
As pointed out - we become MORE Like that "weeping" caring God in whom "ALL HIS COMPASSIONS" are stirred up over the case of the wicked for HE HAS NO PLEASURE in their death.
Which is why in Rev 21 it is only AFTER the judgment of the wicked, and AFTER the lake of fire, and AFTER the new Earth is created that we see the promise of EVERY TEAR wiped away!!
What a great BIBLE!!
How sad that it is not wanted for ALL that it says in those cut-and-paste methods of Calvinism.
In Christ,
Bob -
Bob,
reconcile "God HATES the wicked"....
Crying Hallelujah is Rev 19 is it not?
Fighting against scripture to "fit" your humanistic philosphy again....oh the preciousness of the goodness of man... hail him!
Still fighting for man huh Bob? ... -
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Calvinism"
For in the BIBLE
Romans 9:15-16 "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,(1 )but on God, who has mercy"
With the result that God HAS GREAT patience EVEN on those "Vessels of wrath" for HE CONVICTS THE WORLD as the Savior of the WORLD who is the atoning sacirifice for the sins OF THE WHOLE WORLD. God CALLING ALL MANKIND EVERYWHERE to repentance!! -- Yes "even" the vessels of wrath!!
That was pretty easy.
Next.
In Christ,
Bob -
God CALLING ALL MANKIND EVERYWHERE to repentance!! -- Yes "even" the vessels of wrath!!
What's your point? That God calls everyone? ... Tell us something we don't know! The vessels of wrath are APPOINTED for wrath... yes they are called, that's the point! They will not EVER repent though, because of the fact.
THAT was easy! -
Monergist,
Your OP quote, is by one who hasn't got a clue about what the saints in Heaven will see, do, feel, or experience. And if you believe that claptrap, you don't either! -
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Are you serious Monergist? You should just accept what Wes says as if it were inspired.
Seriously though Wes, do you deem yourself qualified to dismiss one of the great English speaking preacher/evangelists ever just because you don't like what he says?
Could it be that someone who studied the scripture as intently as Edwards did have a clue and someone who so readily dismisses scripture's authority is the one without a clue? -
Think about it! How would the new be different than the old if all of that still existed? -
I'm sorry Wes,
But for you to correct Edwards might be the most prideful and ignorant things I've EVER heard. Did you graduate Yale at 14? Masters at 17? Didn't think so. Learn from the teachers God has gifted. By mocking and rejecting their teachings leaves you in your present state, prideful and uneducated. -
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His statements about their getting a lot of chuckles out of seeing the lost
YOU are in Sin Bob....
Jonathan Edwards, never said we would be chuckling.... you LIE... and you grossly misunderstand about EVERYTHING he says... It would help if you READ everything He wrote on the subject and weigh it carefully before commenting on it. -
Your obligatory ranting is not open to response - but the quote from Edwards is "instructive".
Edwards --
And if we understand the text to have respect only to a temporal execution of God's wrath on his enemies, that will not alter the case. The thing they are called upon to rejoice at, is the execution of God's wrath upon his and their enemies. And if it be matter of rejoicing to them to see justice executed in part upon them, or to see the beginning of the execution of it in this world; for the same reason will they rejoice with greater joy, in beholding it fully executed. For the thing here mentioned as the foundation of their joy, is the execution of just vengeance: Rejoice, for God hath avenged you on her.Click to expand...
The very thing RC claims "does not exist"!!
How wonderful that Calvinism seem to have no fact at all to hang its hat on in this particular point!!
Hence the obligatory ranting in RC's post above. (Typical of any argument that has run out of evidence, reason and logic to sustain it).
In Christ,
Bob -
Correction - I should have included REJOICING to that quote on JOY!!
Edwards said --
It is not only the sight of God's wrath executed on those wicked men who are of the antichristian church, which will be occasion of rejoicing to the saints in glory; but also the sight of the destruction of all God's enemies: whether they have been the followers of antichrist or not, that alters not the case, if they have been the enemies of God, and of Jesus Christ. All wicked men will at last be destroyed together, as being united in the same cause and interest, as being all of Satan's army. They will all stand together at the day of judgment, as being all of the same company.Click to expand...
In Christ,
Bob
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