Rom 4:4-5
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
That those whom Christ died for are Justified before believing, which pleases God [Heb 11:6] is evident from the fact that God Justifieth the Ungodly ! The word Justify here is in the present tense, denoting He was or is Justifying the Ungodly, while they are or were The Ungodly. This is the same as when Paul taught that the elect were reconciled to God while yet enemies Rom 5:10 !
Now how can this be ? Because they are reconciled or Justified by Christ's Blood [ Rom 5:9] and or His Death [Rom 5:10] and this before they believe !
Those Christ died for, shed His Blood for are not Justified by their pleasing God, but by His Pleasing God in their behalf, for it is said of Him by the Father Matt 3:1
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
God Justifies the Ungodly, in that those Christ died for, shed His blood for, which blood Justified them before God, nevertheless they shall still be born as ungodly sinners as anyone else, but the Blood of Christ has always Justified them. To deny this Truth, is to deny the Gospel !
Justified while Ungodly !
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Feb 13, 2012.
Page 1 of 11
-
-
Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. -
God choses us first, enables us/graces us to be enabled to palce faith in Christ, place the faith in jesus, and thus are saved! -
That is not scripture. Calvinists claim we all hate God, and in this state of hate, God saves us. Again, that is NOT scripture. What you believe goes AGAINST the Word of God. Scripture SAYS we are saved when we LOVE God. John 14:23. -
-
-
-
Isaiah 64:5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? -
For instance, Christ Death took away the sins of all for whom He died, God's Justice has been satisfied concerning them. That happened over 2000 yrs ago, now the elect that are born therafter, though they are born Ungodly sinners like all men are, nevertheless, because of Christ, they are Justified, So the Ungodly are Justified, those Christ died for. Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
If he beared their iniquities, then they are Justified or accounted Righteous ! -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
bib
-
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You are habitually taking things out of a NON-TIME and NON- SPACE context where no LITERAL CONCRETE APPLICATION is possible and declaring them CONCRETE and LITERAL.
You are habitually taking things out of TIME and SPACE context and where they are CONCRETE and LITERAL and attempting to place them into a NON-TIME and NON-SPACE context.
Thus you are simply perverting the Word of God.
Of course the elect are justified in a NON-TIME and NON-SPACE context according to the Purpose of God but without LITERAL CONCRETED application.
The very fact they are called "ungodly" and "enemies" in a TIME and SPACE context proves they were not reconciled or justified in a TIME and SPACE concrete application before regeneration but were children of wrath even as others in the same TIME and SPACE concrete application.
Therefore they were JUSTIFIED in a non-literal concrete applicational sense before generation while at the same time they were NOT JUSTIIFED in a literal concrete application sense until regeneration.
Those who cannot discern between these two sense will only pervert the scriptures and teach false doctrine in the name of "sovereign grace" or the "doctrine of grace" and thus make the truth a lie and a mockery before those who reject the doctrine of unconditional election. -
the bib
-
bib
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It is like a person who presumes white is really black and as long as that person PRESUMES that lie they will call everyone else liars who rightly discern white is white not black and black is black not white. You live in your own made up theological world where you have forced things in a context of NON-TIME and NON-SPACE to be actually CONCRETE IN APPLICATION as though they were in TIME and SPACE when in fact they are not. As long as you live in your literal special world of make believe all will be liars but you. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
However, in regard to their own person in time and space while they were ungodly and enemies they were not justified nor reconciled but were "children of wrath even as others" (Eph. 2:2-3). Furthermore, when they believed they were at that point NO MORE UNGODLY and NO MORE ENEMIES of God and thus NO MORE CHILDREN OF WRATH even as other still are.
What you do not understand it is not God's Eternal Purpose for them to be justified in their own person any more than it is for them to be regenerated and glorified in their own person UNTIL IT OCCURS IN TIME AND SPACE at God's appointed time. -
bib
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
were enemies is in the present tense, so , while they were being enemies, they were reconciled [past tense] to God ! You suppose to be a greek man check it out !
Note on the presnt tense:
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. -
Bible says yes, so were indeed enemies of God, and NOT justified until,AFTER receiving the Lord jesus, and having the election confirmed and made effective by the application effectually of the grace of God to their behalf! -
da says
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Are not all these terms (ENEMIES, children of wrath, etc.) used only by God for those the Law has a just basis to condemn? How can anyone reconciled to God still be regarded JUSTLY under such condemning legal terms unless there is a JUST basis for regarding them as such? If there is a JUST basis for regarding them as such what is that JUST basis if it is not the Law of God? If it is the Law of God that JUSTLY regards them under such condemning language then how can they be reconciled to God if the Law still considers them JUSTLY as "ENEMIES and children of wrath."
Isn't a person reconciled to God no longer considered by God to be His "enemy" or are all enemies reconciled to God?
Page 1 of 11