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Featured Kevin Bauder: A Fundamentalist's Education

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Rhetorician, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    It was the start of those yankee modernists who claim it profitable to have a woman tell them the word of God.
     
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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  3. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    The second part of the Founders article Agedman linked to for support details Marlowe's arguments, many of which it characterizes as "bizarre."

    https://founders.org/2018/01/11/the-first-worship-war-among-baptists-part-2/

    A sample:
    The Founders writer's conclusion about Marlowe:
     
  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Oh, we've gotten very far afield from the OP!

    I will be starting a separate thread about Amy Stockton's preaching in the North, South, East, and West.

    I encourage Agedman to start a thread on this squabble that arose over prohibiting singing in Baptist churches. It's so fascinating.
     
  5. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    So, back to the topic, education.
    Yes, recall R.C. Sproul went to Pittsburgh Seminary, a PCUSA institution that produced PBS televangelist Fred Rogers. Sproul and Mister Rogers studied there at the same time!
     
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  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I only raised the issue to demonstrate how modernism drove the north into acceptance of what was not Scriptural.

    It seems so many completely disregard that women have a place and it is not in the pulpit and definitely not speaking in the assembly.
     
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I'm not Agedman (and may have jumped the gun), but seeing nothing started so far I went ahead and started a thread on the subject. I decided to place it in the Baptist history forum, since this is mostly an historical discussion.

    Baptist Music: To Sing or Not To Sing
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I fear you are making the same type of mistake many non-SBC make. You are telescoping two controversies. The debate of singing in the worship service predates (the mid-1700s) the modernist controversy. To gain an insight into what a mid-19th century Northern Baptist held, I suggest you read:
    • Francis Wayland's Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches written in the 1850s. Wayland gives the reasons for the split of the Triennial Convention.
    • Hiscox's New Directory for Baptist Churches also gives a snapshot of the pre-Modernist Northern Baptist movement.
    Both are available through Google Books for free.
     
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  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Long before there was the modernist there was the liberal.

    The traditional hymn singing of the last 200 years (from the early 1800's) was not that of what was previous for two centuries (from the early 1600's) what the people were used to hearing in comparison to the centuries before that.

    For example:
    Issac Watts (liberal as he was - or was labeled as being) was first highly criticized for paraphrasing into sensible English rhymes the Psalms. It was not until after his death than a great body of his work in this was actually recognized as beneficial to the Baptist church and more of his work was being incorporated.

    In the U.S., following the years of the northern aggression, the hymn singing took on a more vibrant and emotional presentation and with the edition of popular music that was blended by better communications, better cross country travel, better trained music leading, ... the modern music forms took shape. Some tunes reflected the more southernly warmth, and some more of the northern chill, but as the tunes and words were collected and published, a more unified set of hymns became standard. Philip Bliss was concerned in his short time with the direction some of the music used (particularly in the camp meetings and revival meetings) was taking. His discomfort was generally that it was appealing more to the emotions than to the truth of Scriptures.

    Imo, his concern was well founded as ultimately folks turned from the Scriptures to accepting the music despite the worldly use. Even now as the typical modern church engages in all manner of showmanship and enhancements, he has been shown correct to have the concerns.

    A one well known Dr. of Theology censures his recommendation of hymns based upon a rejection not only on the textual considerations, but also by the use of the meter and patterns of how the poem is put together. (similar thinking as Philip Bliss was early in forming)

    In his view, certain rhythmic poetry schemes were generated purely for the amusement and entertainment and used primarily to scorn or demean. To allow such use to be a part of the worship is allowing that which is scornful and demeaning a part of the worship. For example: Think of the rhythm of the running eighth notes of 6/8 meter such as in "Jesus Loves Even Me," put together is the rhythm of "Make Me a Blessing." These would be rejected from both a textual standpoint and from the use of worldly meter scheme.

    Now, I am not fully in agreement with his thinking, but it is to show how controversy that may start out as Biblical may soon take on some rather personal views that some might claim as "spiritual discernment."

    Personally, I don't see Bliss as agreeing with the extreme this modern person takes, but the sentiment remains very similar.
     
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