1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Key verses of corruption.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Jan 1, 2022.

  1. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe you are certainly correct here. But here is the reasoning of the critical text people.

    Textual Variants: John 1:15-8:57
    John
    7:8:
    TEXT: "I am not going up to this feast"
    EVIDENCE: Aleph(א) D K Pi 1241 most lat vg syr(c,s) most cop(north)
    TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSV NRSV ESV NASV NIV84n NIV2011 NEB REB TEV CSB
    CERTAINTY: C

    NOTES: "I am not yet going up to this feast"
    EVIDENCE: p66 p75 B L T W X Delta Theta Psi 0180 ƒ1 ƒ13 28 700 892 1010 Byz Lect two lat syr(p,h,pal) one cop(north) cop(south)
    TRANSLATIONS: KJV NKJV ASVn RSVn NRSVn ESVn NASV73n NIV84 NIV2011n NEBn REBn TEVn CSBn

    COMMENTS: Looking past verse 9 ("he remained in Galilee") to verse 10 ("he also went up"), several copyists apparently changed "not" to "not yet" to remove what they thought would have been a lie told by Jesus. If "not yet" was original, there would have been no reason for it to have been changed to "not" in so many manuscripts.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    302
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are variants forms of corruption?
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those variants are the corruptions.
     
  4. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    302
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Most of the time it's vice versa.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A textual critic Wilbur N. Pickering wrote in his translation, "Perhaps 1% of the Greek manuscripts, of inferior quality, omit “yet” (as in NASB, TEV, RSV, etc.). The reading of the so-called ‘critical’ text has the effect of ascribing a falsehood to Jesus, since He did in fact go to the feast (and doubtless knew what He was going to do). Among the 99% are P66,75 and B—since the UBS editors usually attach the highest value to P75 and B, isn’t it strange that they reject them in this case?"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. A Majority text is a most of the times reading of texts or it would not be the common reading!
     
    #26 37818, Jan 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
  7. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    302
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Majority Text was in the minority until the 7th or 8th century.
     
  8. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Aye. There were only 5 Greek manuscripts without the words. That leaves thousands of copies with the words, going straight back to the 1st century A.D. A mear 5 could never be correct against so many. The word accidently dropped out. Yet it happened early to affect the Old Latin and Latin Vulgate manuscripts. The early second century mistake shows up later in 5 Greek manuscripts. Great to mark in apparatuses, but not in the Text of Bibles.
     
    #28 Conan, Jan 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. Corruptions just mean mistakes.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. But unfortunately too many are intentionally done. Such as John 1:18 and John 13:2 and others.
     
  11. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 9-21
    13:2. Read "supper coming" instead of "supper having come" (KJV renders 'supper being ended'). T Tr WH N NA

    13:2. Read "put into the heart that Judas ... should betray him" (which may mean 'into [his own] heart') instead of "put into the heart of Judas ... that he should betray him" (KJV 'to betray him'). T Tr A WH N NA

    13:2. Read "Judas, [son] of Simon Iscariot" instead of "Judas Iscariot, [son] of Simon". NA
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    δειπνου γενομενου supper being ended
    δειπνου γινομενου during supper
    δειπνου γεινομενου NA reports as γινομενου
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 1:18 with the reading "God", and not "Son", is the Original reading of the Apostle John, and has the oldest and strongest textual evidence. I dealt with this last May, God...The Unique God

    It not only shows the Deity of Jesus Christ, but His absolute equality with the Father, Who is also "God" here, as in John 1:1!
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You were wrong then as you are wrong now. It is the reading the JWs use behind their "only-begotten god" theology.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The JW's, and those before them, and others, like the KJVO and those who hold to this "only-begotten" teaching, clearly do not understand the Greek language! The Greek adjactive, "μονογενής", is a compound word, from "μόνος and γένος", with the literal meaing of "one of a kind", or better, "unique". If John wished to show any "begetting", then he would have used the right Greek word for this, which is, "μονογέννητος". As for the textual evidence, "μονογενὴς θεὸς", is attested for in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, not only in the Greek manuscripts, but also in the Gospel of John used by the early heretics, who attacked the Deity of Jesus Christ! Some English Bible Versions also adopt the reading "μονογενὴς θεὸς", like the ESV, NASB (1977, 1995), NET Bible, NLT, etc
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why would the invisible God need unique visible God to explain Him? Isaiah 43:10, ". . . before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. . . " Here the Hebrew for God is even in the singular, not in the common Hebrew plural for God.
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus Christ is here called the "Unique God", because He alone of the Three Persons in the Godhead, through eternally God, took upon Himself the "nature" of us humans, except for sin, and became The God-Man. This is seen in John 1:1, as God, and verse 14, as becoming the God-Man. Verse 18 brings both verses together.

    I cannot see why you would quote Isaiah 43:10, because the use of אֵ֔ל here, is not for the One True God of the Bible, but the many false"gods" there are in this world. Like in Greek, the singular is used many times for the plural, etc. It should read, "before Me no god was formed"
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,174
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, there are not two Gods. They are the same God. John 1:18 error is contrary to the Trinity.
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    who says anything about 2 Gods? In John 1:1, we have Jesus Christ as GOD, and He is WITH another GOD, Who is the Father. Do you deny this? This says there are two Persons Who are GOD. It is the same in verse 18, where the first use of GOD, is the Father, and the Unique God, is Jesus Christ. Very simple to understand.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    do you believe that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, and 100% equal to God the Father? Also, show how John 1:18, with the reading, "θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς θεὸς", is an error that is contrary to the Trinity?
     
Loading...