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Featured KJV Wrongly Translates the Hebrew

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by SavedByGrace, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Here is Parkhurst

    anash.png

    As you no doubt are aware, that in each case, the word "bad" is associated with "illness, disease, hurt, wound, sick". Do you see "wicked" here? Your own link proves that all who bang on about the KJV/Geneva's reading "wicked", are WRONG!

    Just accept that you got it wrong and move on...
     
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Kind of short clipped that there, didn't you? I'll trust everyone who can check the link to read the entire entry to see various connotations.
     
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Really? here is the full one

    anash.png
     
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  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    net.png

    From the Net Study Bible
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    any apology forthcoming for implying that I misrepresented what Parkhurst said?
     
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Yes, really. It seemed odd that you clipped the entry without including the one below that mentions the verse we are discussing.
     
    #106 rlvaughn, Apr 12, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    NET Bible: The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad.19 Who can understand it?
    Do you agree with the NET translation and explanation of “ʼânash” as incurably bad or incurably deceitful? Is whatever is incurable physical or spiritual? Or maybe something else?
     
    #107 rlvaughn, Apr 12, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure, but I'd hazard a guess that it is.
    That said, I do indeed see a connection between what is stated in Jeremiah 17:9 and what is stated in both the Psalms and Romans 1:18-32.
     
  9. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I happen to believe that the AV has been blessed by God like no other English translation has been...
    and I think that you'll find that many professing Christians in the English-speaking world even today, hold this opinion of it.

    Until relatively recently, it was the standard among all the English speaking believers the world over;
    From roughly 1650 until 1881, there really was no other that was known as "the Bible".

    When another translation comes along that has that kind of longevity,
    then perhaps that one will be blessed more than the AV.;)
    I'm sorry, but I really cannot agree.

    For example, two of the ones you've mentioned above utilize the Critical Text... and to me, that makes them unfit to be considered as worthy in any sense of the word.
    The third one ( the NKJV ) I would take comfort in if no other TR -based Bibles were available.

    If it were really bad and I was desperate for any Bible to read, I would use an NASB before I would an ESV.
    That's my own personal opinion, but there it is.
    You are of course entitled to your opinion...

    As for me, I see nothing wrong with how Genesis 2:2 is rendered in the AV.
    For example, this source tells me that the Hebrew is indeed rendered correctly:
    https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen2.pdf

    Also, from my own studies I've always understood His work to have ceased on the seventh day ( at the very end of the sixth ), and that He did no work during it.
    Agreed.
     
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I took a stab at it, not smoothing it out but keeping it in the Spanish word order to demonstrate the correspondence.

    Engañoso es el corazón más que todas las cosas, y perverso; ¿quién lo conocerá?
    Deceitful is the heart more than all the things, and perverse (wicked)' Who it can know?

    Your comment made me curious about the Louis Segond French Bible. I took French in High School, but that was a few years ago -- so I had to use the online translator to get it right. (Similarly, I kept the French word order to demonstrate the correspondence.

    Le coeur est tortueux par-dessus tout, et il est méchant: Qui peut le connaître?
    The heart is devious above all, and it is evil (wicked): who can it know?
     
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  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    You actually did a fair bit better than I did. ;)
    I didn't know what "enganoso" meant until I ran through it a few times comparing it to the English, and as for "cosas" and "conocera", I was a bit fuzzy on those.

    Mi espanol es muy terrible.:Laugh
    I have one in my living room...
    It was a gift from a brother in the Lord that belongs to the Trinitarian Bible Society, and he gave it to me because he knew that I had taken French in high school.
    I do that as well, but my French is somewhat better than my Spanish is ( currently ), so I'm able to carry on a bit further in French before I inevitably give up and go to Google Translate.

    Thanks for the added info.:)
     
    #111 Dave G, Apr 12, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  12. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    My high school French was about 47 years ago, so I have forgotten most of what I knew. Re Spanish, I mostly learned it conversationally, listening to tapes, using a dictionary, and reading books. I have worked with a lot of Spanish speakers. However, though I know a lot of words, I get fouled up on the verb tenses and such like. Plus, I have not worked directly on a daily basis with anyone who speaks Spanish in about 10 years. So I am slipping! Translating a Bible verse with which I am familiar is sort of cheating cause I'm guessing at the actual right verb tense.
     
  13. Stratton7

    Stratton7 Member

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    You asked for a “host” of other versions that said wicked besides the Geneva (which actually you declared to be the only one that had it besides the KJB). So do you discredit the ones I showed you because it doesn’t amount to what satisfies you as “hosts” of?
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    their note reflects what the actual Hebrew word means, "Heb “It is incurable.”".
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    if the actual Hebrew, which is the language of the OT, means "sick", as in "ailment", then why the need to go to other languages for the correct meaning? Looks like you are just trying to show that the KJV/Geneva got this right?
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    do you know any Hebrew? Just because there are versions that simply follow the KJV, does not make them right
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    do you know THE Version of the Holy Bible that was the Standard in the Church for over 1000 years? Not the KJV, but the Latin Vulgate!
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    and how much Hebrew grammar do you know? The MT that is wrong, and all trasnlations that follow it
     
  19. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I was responding to Dave, who mentioned the Spanish translation. However, you are the one who, beginning from your original post, invoked how various translations render the word “ʼânash”. Yes, all of those you gave were in English, but Englishmen are not the only people who can and do translate the Bible. You raised the question and have found it important that no one gives "wicked" other than the Geneva and KJV. But, in fact, some others do, both in English and the equivalent in other languages. Not only that, as we have seen from your Parallel Bibles link at Bible Hub, quite a few others give some words that are not particularly in the realm of sick or diseased any more than "wicked" is (e.g., corrupt, hard, stubborn, unsearchable). Perhaps some of those translators had a rudimentary knowledge of the Hebrew language, and those translating after 1906 might have even been familiar with A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, by Brown, Driver, and Briggs.
    What is it that is incurable about the heart (or the mind, as NET gives it)? Is it the right atrium, the left ventricle? Or is it something spiritual and/or moral? If the latter, what is it, in particular?
     
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  20. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Do KJV defenders or KJV-only advocates consistently grant other English Bible translators the exact, same amount of leeway to choose one out of the range of claimed possible meanings for original-language words of Scripture as they are so willing to grant to the makers of the KJV?

    KJV defenders seem in effect to be very tolerate or flexible in granting the KJV translators a great deal of leeway in their translation decisions while in contrast being very inflexible or rigid in their assertions concerning the translation decisions of other English Bible translators and in what they allege or claim to be inaccurate or wrong in them.

    If the same amount of leeway in translation decisions was granted to other English Bibles translators, would most of KJV-only allegations or claims against present English Bible translations fall away?
     
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