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Kremlin Fears of NATO Expansion

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Martin Marprelate, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I found this a very interesting article. The writer, Nick Magoran, is Professor of Political Geography at Newcastle University, and also an elder of Wallsend Baptist Church in the North of England.
    Ukraine war: this map holds an important clue about Kremlin fears of Nato expansion
    The article does not attempt to whitewash Putin's responsibility for the war in Ukraine, but does help to explain how he has been able to keep a large proportion of Russian Public opinion on-side, and how the West might have done things better.
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    The Great Game is still afoot. To mix Kipling and Conan-Doyle.
     
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely nothing 'new' here:

    "According to an article in Der Spiegel, a newly discover documented dated March 1991 shows that discussions between the West and Russia made it clear that NATO would not expand past East Germany an agreement that it appears to have reneged on.
    The military standoff between the Ukraine and Russia stems from the latter’s demands for NATO to curb its expansion in to Eastern Europe, in what it sees as a threat to its security.
    The key text in the minutes from the meeting quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz saying: “We made it clear to the Soviet Union, in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe,”
    “NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially.”
    A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”
    West German diplomat Juergen Hrobog said of the 1991 agreement: “We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe. We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”...."

    Bottom line, the NWO billionaires reneged on the deal.
     
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  5. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    OK, I’ll bite. Just what was "Russia’s perception of threat"? Remember, Russia was central to the USSR, which had plans to nuke neighboring Soviet Bloc countries should war break out and not go their way.

    From the article:

    But this does not negate the argument that Nato expansion was a significant factor in precipitating this crisis. What matters is Russia’s perception of threat – and how badly this was misjudged by Washington, Brussels and in Kyiv.​
     
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ukraine becoming a member of NATO, kinda like nukes in Cuba...
     
  7. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Is that statement indicating that all NATO countries are nuclear armed?
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No.
     
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  9. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    So, perhaps the better comparison would be Russian military in Cuba?
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    My original point was that there is nothing new about Russian fears of NATO expansion up to their very borders, per the document mentioned in post #3.
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  12. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    OK, but such assurances could not be considered one-sided.

    In this case, did Russia allow Ukraine its independence, or did they instead try to undermine that independence and control it through their own government operatives?
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Again, nothing new here, and my position/opinion hasn't changed (since 2014).
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Differing positions/opinions are OK, at least with me.

    But the question posed has not been answered here. Let me get the answered started and then others can attempt to finish it per their opinions.

    Russia fears NATO expansion, because, unlike Russia, NATO …
     
  16. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Where’s the typo? This is where language can be so intriguing. From the article:

    Putin on Friday signed four “ascension treaties” to annex the Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions of Ukraine after holding referendums in the area decried as “sham” elections by the West. Moscow, however, claims the territories want to be apart of Russia.​

    Some would say “apart” is correct but “of” should be “from.” :Wink
     
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