Limited Atonement

Limited Atonement: an interesting doctrine.

Can we draw any analogies between The Flood of Noah and the notion that God can and has saved whom He wills?

God destroyed the world and all life, save that which was on the Ark. The scripture says: Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. It does not say Noah deserved being preserved along with his immediate family.

Noah preached for 120 yrs. while building the Ark. Does this mean all those who perished were exercising their free wills?

God is not obligated to save anyone.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

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[/QUOTE]

I was wrong...they can't take it. :)

If you are worried about it web, you must prove I am wrong. I'm not going to waste my time. But once you prove it, I will recant. Other wise "here I stand". :)

 

The one making the outlandish statement should be able to prove the outlandish statement. It is not up to the one calling you out to prove you wrong. No wonder you don't know how to debate properly. Quit spreading the vitriol for a change. Either you stated that to get a response...which you did...or you lied. Which is it?

 

Jaurthor01,
Those are Calvins own words in HIS commentary ,I did'nt write it I just read it.

He's also not so detailed in salvation as some on this board. Calvins notes on acts16:31

31. ​

​

Believe in the Lord Jesus. This is but a short, and, to look to, a cold
and hungry definition of salvation, and yet it is perfect to believe in Christ.
For Christ alone hath all the parts of blessedness and eternal life included
in him, which he offereth to us by the gospel; and by faith we receive
them, as I have declared, (<441509>Acts 15:9.) And here we must note two
things; first, that Christ is the mark F1077 whereat faith must aim; and,
therefore, men’s minds do nothing else but wander when they turn aside​

from him.

 

Indeed Bro. James

What I have asked before is was the ark made to hold the whole world, if they had come?

 

By the way I am not a John Calvin hater, I have everything he has ever written. I don't agree with him on everything but then nobody gets 100%.
I do like most of his commentaries.

 

You are misapplying the ark analogy. Noah and his family were already God's. God kept His own safe. Noah was righteos...by grace through faith.

 

I understand and agree. What I said is that Calvin said this also in the same commentary.

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Could you please give the book in which this quote is found. I cannot seem to find it.

Thanks.

 

OK, so YOU are not included either. Is that what you mean? And Noah, Abel, Adam -- they weren't "Israelis." They aren't included either, right?

skypair

 

The ark wasn't made to hold the whole world, but if the whole had come, the ark wouldn't have been needed. :)



Noah was declared righteous for the same reason that Abraham was...because he believed God. (Galations 3:6)

The rest of Noah's world did not believe God. Instead they turned away from God and became increasingly more wicked. (Romans 1:28)

 

Hi David;
You'd have a hard time of proving anyone is His before they are. No one is a sheep of Christ until they are saved. The problem with particular redemption is that God is not a respecter of men and a particular election would make Him one.
Particular election means the Father can't save certain ones and that isn't true. It tramples on the Sovereignty of God. It tells God He cannot save whom He may want to.

Jn10:15
Does say He layed down His life for the sheep which was Israel and the other sheep in verse 16 is the rest of the world. The fold He was speaking of was the Jews.
Verse 26 says if we don't believe we are not His sheep. No one has always believed. The man doesn't exist that has always been a sheep.
I do not disagree with Jn 6:37-39. Calvinist, assume they have been given before they have been.
Could you explain How no man can come to the Father except through Christ. I've been told that the Holy Spirit is who saves through regeneration before belief in Christ.
MB

 

If I had a gold star I'd give to you for this one. Amen
MB

 

Yet there will be those who affirm your spirit as well, Amy. :jesus:

Believing Calvinism is like believing that Christ is married to the "Stepford wives." They're all pre-programmed to do exactly what God "elected" them to do. Think of how glorious that is to Christ! Almost "takes your breath away" the worship offered irresistibly by ROBOTS, eh?

Love? As Dave Hunt points out, "What Love Is This?" It is a "one sided" tranasaction! It's like the joke we all laugh about. When the wife asks, "Do you love me?" Calvinism's Christ answers, "Hey, I married you didn't I?" :tear:

I know -- I'm painting "caricatures" again. "Exaggerating the truth for effect." Trying to make them see what compares with their theology. I hope they will try to caricature MY theology so that I may answer their view as well.

skypair

 

Agreed. The sheep Jesus was speaking about was Israel, but not all of them. The sheep were the Jews who had believed the OT prophecies of the coming Messiah and who also were faithful to God. (They will all be taught of God) So, when their Messiah came, they knew His "voice".
The "other sheep" that He would call were the Gentiles. He would call them by being lifted up between heaven and earth as a propitiation for all men. (crucified)

 

commentary on acts16:31

 

Believe it or not -- I been there too! There ARE some passages that demand serious reflection/meditation. There a certain concepts that, on their face, sound right.

"Original sin," for instance. It's a great way to make God responsible for my status as a sinner and my automatic reprobation as God's "just" decision and my "fate" if I am predestined to reprobation.

NO! The facts are that I sinned and came short of the righteousness of God. And I MUST do something about that! God has done all that He can on my behalf at the cross. It's up to me now.

For those who do not believe this, I doubt if they belong on this BAPTIST board. If you did not affirm your responsibility for sin, die to self, and covenant with God through His Son, you're in the wrong place IMO.

skypair

 

Indeed it does. And the ALL are about BELIEVERS who are brought back from backsliding -- first by Christ, second by the Holy Spirit, and, in the prodigal son, by the Father!! Does Christ leave 100 "goats" to find the one lost sheep? Does the Holy Spirit help the harlot find the one silver coin of her "proof of marriage?" Is the prodigal as son or a bastard? Go get your parables worked out and then come back and teach us.

skypair

 

God did keep his own. He also picked them. He also saved them from damnation. right?

Or do you believe Noah just misunderstood God when said...
But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Now Noah find grace because he was good? (works)
or
Was Noah good because of what was given by the Lord? (grace)

 

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise........

.....So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

And what if 5000 came?

We were talking about the atonement, and if it is limited. Now we have moved into all of justification. I hope we get back to the atonement and if it is limited or not.

But being that we are where...lets talk

If we move into full justification we must address the all of it not just part.

Why was the grace given to Noah?

Noah is 1st said to have found grace in the eyes of God. Then he is righteous. Or do you believe Noah was right or good and this brought the eyes of God toward him..in other words Noah was good and stood out among others because he was good, so God choose him because he was good.

This is election of Noah. Was this based on grace or works?

You also asked about Abraham. You posted he was made right, because he believed. All are made right just as he was. But what brought Abraham to the point he even knew about God?

Why was Abraham choosen? Good works? God came to Abraham. why?

No one came...and God knew only those he chose would come.

Lets say there was a man name Joe Chin that lived about 200 miles from Noah. Could God have talked with Joe from heaven? Could God have saw fit to move on the heart of Joe and ask him to build another ark just as God did Noah? I'm sure you will say yes.

Did God? No.

Why?


The Bible says ALL of mankind was evil Noah was part of mankind. But Noah found grace. Why?

Is that not the T in TULIP? :)