Still rationalizing the numbers instead of dealing with Scripture, I see.
[ October 10, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
Limted Attonement
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ForumChaplain, Sep 29, 2002.
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Ken
A Spurgeonite -
(And whoever thinks that infants go to hell, please stand up)
[ October 10, 2002, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ] -
Thanks, Scott. Glad to see we agree.
Ken
A Spurgeonite -
1. The narrowness of the gate refers to the exclusivity of Christ Jesus.
2. Jesus is speaking ethically in that passage, not prophetically. We are to be motivated to place our faith in Him as the Messiah.
3. Jesus is dealing with the state of affairs existing then - very few Jews believed in Him at that time. That passage does not deal with the rest of human history.
4. There is nothing in that passage that says that the state of affairs at that time were permanent. The passage is descriptive, not prescriptive.
5. The context deals with the rejection at that time of Christ by all but a small number of Jews.
Now, Scott, I am 99.999999999% sure you won't agree with what I repeated above from my studies, but you can't say I haven't dealt with the passage you keep bringing up.
Ken
A Spurgeonite -
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Lets look at the text and "see" if Christ avoids the prophetic - predictive future context.
The future prophetic view of Judgment is explicitly stated. To "assume" that this is Not the context of Christ's words in Matt 7 is to ignore the text itself because it does not fit one's bias.
It is again - the "MANY" still in view in that future prophetic statement of Christ.
And the context of Matt 7 is not "MANY who have not figure out that I am the Messiah" - but rather the MANY who SAY the RIGHT words "Lord Lord" but fail to "Do the Will of My Father".
Speaking the RIGHT words but having actions that do not match those words - is STILL the problem of the church today.
All hopes to limit the scope of Matt 7 so that it is not applicable to us today - fail.
These chapters are specific in that they do not require the audience to know that the speaker is the Messiah OR that He is to die an atoning sacrifice for mankind.
In fact we are told in Matt 16 that "FRom that Time on" he BEGAN to show them that He must die. Long after events in Matt 7.
In christ,
Bob
[ October 12, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ] -
Calvinists in their passion to protect the concept of ‘salvation by grace alone,' minus faith have taken their alleged truth too far off course. Yes, salvation is by grace alone as is stated in Ephesians 2:8. Calvinists insist that belief or trusting in Christ is a outright ‘work' and therefore in contradiction with Ephesians 2:9.
Here is their fallacy. Jesus Himself said that ‘believing' in the Father about Him sending Jesus to die for our sins is absolutely not a human ‘work,' and, therefore, in no way interferes with God ministering grace in the life of a sinner.
The proof that believing in Christ as Savior is not a human ‘work' is found in John 6:29 where our Lord Himself continues to say to future generations, ‘This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.' By believing that the Father sent the Son of God to be our Savior is all important to God. The work of God in His ministering to sinners requires our belief in Jesus and His saving, spiritual benefits. This clearly allows ‘faith' found in Ephesians 2:8 to be instrumental to a persons final salvation.
Some may call this semi-Pelagianism, but this concept is mega-worlds closer than autocratic predestination allegedly ministered by our God Who's nature is unimpeachable justice. Our belief in Christ is co-mingled with the work and ministry of God and He places the seal of His own words on this orthodox and clear fact. [John 6:29]
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