Little Big Horn

[Aaron]

Does this mean----if I decide to become a lawless one(like you claim the American Indians were)----you can walk on over here and take my land and house for your own!!?? I've got somethin' in my gun cabinet that'll . . .

Actually, the state will come over there with more and bigger guns.

I hope you always follow the law so that no one can take your stuff over.

Everyday, individuals are deprived of liberty and property as punishment for their crimes. Less often and less than it is deserved, some are deprived of life.

That principle is in force every day. There would be no civilization without it.

 

[Aaron]

Really? Did that include attacking, killing, and enslaving each other?

Exactly. Their pagan and diabolical codes notwithstanding, they were lawless.

 

[kyredneck]

Actually, the state will come over there with more and bigger guns.Everyday, individuals are deprived of liberty and property as punishment for their crimes. Less often and less than it is deserved, some are deprived of life.

That principle is in force every day. There would be no civilization without it.

I must admit it kinda surprises me to see you catching all this flak over this. I understand where you're coming from, I believe others have too:

“Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.” Patrick Henry

 

[preachinjesus]

Seems the White folk did a lot of attacking, killing and enslaving of others. Remember:

1. Bleeding Kansas
2. The Trail of Tears
3. The Civil War
4. Harpers Ferry and John Brown
5. The lynchings
6. The witch trails
7. the Coal Field War
8. The enslavement of millions of Africans
9. The interment of Japanese Americans during World War II
10. Took Indian children away from their parents and shipped them to schools far away.
11. Broke every treaty that we and they signed.
12. The list can go on and on

This is a good list to begin with to point out that the level of a group's savagery has little to no relation to their outward disposition and appearance.

In other words: Just because the white Western European Colonialists came wearing "civilized" clothing, carrying "civilized" books, and speaking in "civilized" ways doesn't make them less lawless than the "savages" they committed genocide against.

It's odd that some would claim inter-tribal wars, generational destruction, religious based conflicts, and carrying others off into slavery are examples of savagery and lawlessness...

...because that is exactly the modus operandi of Western European Colonialists.

 

[Tom Bryant]

No one is arguing that the Native Americans were saints or even good people. We're agreeing that righteousness does exalt a nation and that sin is a reproach to any people.

What I am disagreeing about is that because of this anyone can just come in and take over. When a criminal goes to court and is judged guilty, they sometimes do have to forfeit property and the like. But this is after a court of law has ruled. So what court ruled the natives were so lawless that they could be taken over?

And, what made those who made treaties and broke every treaty they made into the righteous taking over the unrighteous?

 

[kyredneck]

"God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem..."

Guess whose descendants those white European colonists were that subjugated the natives of the Americas. It definitely smacks of 'manifest destiny' to me.

Do you believe God blessed America and made her great? I do.

 

[Aaron]

What I am disagreeing about is that because of this anyone can just come in and take over.

No one said that. What was said was that lawless inhabitants have no legitimate claim to the land, and that the land is there for those who will subdue it and bring forth its fruits.

When a criminal goes to court and is judged guilty, they sometimes do have to forfeit property and the like. But this is after a court of law has ruled. So what court ruled the natives were so lawless that they could be taken over?

The powers that be, and that were ordained of God.

And, what made those who made treaties and broke every treaty they made into the righteous taking over the unrighteous?

This is a one-sided and oversimplification of a whole nuther topic.

 

[Tom Bryant]

No one said that. What was said was that lawless inhabitants have no legitimate claim to the land, and that the land is there for those who will subdue it and bring forth its fruits.

The powers that be, and that were ordained of God.

This is a one-sided and oversimplification of a whole nuther topic.

Guess we're disagreeing, but I appreciate the conversation. Made me think.

 

[kyredneck]

....This is a one-sided and oversimplification of a whole nuther topic.

Concerning the atrocities committed against the native Americans: 'They are not all Christ's, that are of Christianity' Ro 9:6.

 

[robycop3]

We don't know if GOD used the European invasion of North America to punish the Indians for idolatry or not. Yes, I know mosta those Europeans were no saints themselves, but GOD used the pagan Assyrians and Babylonians to punish many other idolatrous nations, including Israel and Judah when they strayed.

Trying to undo what happened to the Indians 150 years ago is akin to trying to undo the evils of slavery, as everyone who was involved on each side of the issues is long-dead. Our goal, in that respect, is to see those evils don't happen again.

 

[saturneptune]

Do you believe God blessed America and made her great? I do.

He blessed us as a gift and an act of mercy. Some act like we deserve it. Manifest Destiny is about as evil as it gets.

 

[kyredneck]

....Manifest Destiny is about as evil as it gets.

Dad burn SN, now I probably won't sleep over eight hours tonight worrying about that.

 

[Aaron]

He blessed us as a gift and an act of mercy. Some act like we deserve it. Manifest Destiny is about as evil as it gets.

A whole continent of unclaimed land? Seems pretty manifest to me.

 

[saturneptune]

A whole continent of unclaimed land? Seems pretty manifest to me.

How is it unclaimed? It had a governing authority. Just because someone does not dress like you and believe like you, does not make them lawless.

 

[saturneptune]

Dad burn SN, now I probably won't sleep over eight hours tonight worrying about that.

Better start thinking about it, before you know it, GED graduates will take over yours.

 

[kyredneck]

I am a GED graduate.