Looting - is it ALWAYS a Sin?

[Salty]

Mods: not sure where to put this thread, move to another forum if more appropriate.


I'm sure we all remember Hurricane Katrina.

Here is my question (I don't remember if it came up in the aftermath - if so, still would be interesting to see our thoughts now)

If you were stuck in New Orleans in the aftermath of the hurricane - and you had absolutely no food or water.
1. Would you "loot" a store for necessities?

2. If you did "loot" under those circumstances, would God see that as a sin?

thoughts?

Salty

PS I am not talking about a 56 inch TV being a necessity

 

[annsni]

I would not "loot". I would take what I needed if there were no one there and then pay the store back when I was able to find the owner. Stealing is never right.

 

[tinytim]

I would not "loot". I would take what I needed if there were no one there and then pay the store back when I was able to find the owner. Stealing is never right.

Family Feud impersonation... "Good answer, Good Answer!"

 

[Palatka51]

The Mosaic Law made lighter judgments on those that had to steal for food.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Some Looters just plain "Dumb"

The Mosaic Law made lighter judgments on those that had to steal for food.

Agreed... I wouldn't loot simply because I am from the wrong sociao-economic strata to be "forgiven" for my "error".

Let's face Katrina was a fiasco, a total SNAFU... Government had the warning and the means to get the people out. And, didn't...

Volunteers had the desire and resources to get food to the people and were turned away by "government".

There were two groups of looters. Honest Hard Working citizens totally left to their own devices needing food to stay alive...

The other group were simply base criminals taking advantage of the situation.... I mean what excuse is there to steal a color TV when power is out and would probably be out for weeks????

Mike Sr.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Were the cops shooting the looters sinning ? How are they to tell who's doing what for which reasons ?

 

[Aaron]

Stealing is always a sin—even for the necessities of life.

 

[tinytim]

Stealing short circuits faith in God to supply our needs.

 

[Alcott]

Stealing is always a sin—even for the necessities of life.

Is killing always a sin, even to preserve one's life?

 

[Walguy]

Is killing always a sin, even to preserve one's life?

This is why the correct translation of that Commandment is 'You shall not murder.' Murder being the UNLAWFUL taking of life. Killing in self-defense is lawful, and thus not covered by the Commandment.

That said, I agree with annsni. If you intend to pay when you have the opportunity, and there are people in need of the stuff with no other apparent source, it's not stealing. The Law was made for people, not people for the Law. Strict adherence to the letter of the law that causes basic needs of humans to go unmet does not honor the Law or God. (See Mark 2:23-28.)

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Were the cops shooting the looters sinning ? How are they to tell who's doing what for which reasons ?

If I remember correctly the cops abandoned their posts and it was a free for all...

I am not sure if, after such a total failure of Government, the cops had the moral authority any longer to shoot looters...

Mike Sr.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Stealing short circuits faith in God to supply our needs.

I wholeheartedly AGREE...

But, when anothers faith is not up to the challenge do we grind them into dust. Or, do we reach out a helping hand and help them restore what was broken?

Then again how do we consider those who have no faith?

It's a hard thing to sit at home in a warm well fed environment and talk about these things and really understand...

Also, I think we might be wise to consider the difference between rioting, which is what most of the looting we saw on TV was, and people cleaning off store shelves in panic without trashing the physical plant of the store or it's proprietors.

Aaron is right, by the Letter of the Law, looting is always sin... And, we know that the Letter Killeth, but, The Spirit Giveth Life...

Else when David "looted" the shewbread God would have struck him dead...

Mike Sr.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If I remember correctly the cops abandoned their posts and it was a free for all...

I am not sure if, after such a total failure of Government, the cops had the moral authority any longer to shoot looters...

Mike Sr.

I think the cops were the only authority left.

 

[Alcott]

This is why the correct translation of that Commandment is 'You shall not murder.' Murder being the UNLAWFUL taking of life. Killing in self-defense is lawful, and thus not covered by the Commandment.

Show scripturally that a person can kill another person in self-defense. If you can't do it, it's only an assumption on your part-- one which most people would agree with, but still not a scriptural tenet.

And instead of waiting for another post to set the rest of this up ... if you can kill in defense of self or others, even though killing a person is otherwise a great sin, how is it you cannot steal in defense of self or others, though that is otherwise a great sin? Or lie [Rahab]? Or violate ecclastical mandates [David]? ....

 

[Walguy]

Show scripturally that a person can kill another person in self-defense. If you can't do it, it's only an assumption on your part-- one which most people would agree with, but still not a scriptural tenet.

"If a thief is found breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him." - Exodus 22:2
If it is lawful for someone to be struck down simply for breaking in, surely someone who kills another who is actively attempting to kill him is equally exempt from guilt.
To clarify, as usual it depends on the circumstance. If you have a gun, and someone is coming at you with a butcher knife, and you have enough skill with the gun to stop the other person by shooting him in the legs rather than killing him, that would naturally be the preferred course. In most cases, though, there is no such convenient opportunity when someone else is attacking. A quick decision is required, and whatever defense is available must be used, and if the attacker dies God will surely not holder the threatened person guilty.

 

[Aaron]

Is killing always a sin, even to preserve one's life?

No, killing is not a sin. Murder is a sin—always.

 

[Aaron]

....how is it you cannot steal in defense of self or others, though that is otherwise a great sin? Or lie [Rahab]? Or violate ecclastical mandates [David]? ....

The commandment forbids bearing false witness against thy neighbor. It does not forbid misleading God's enemies to preserve innocent life. Rahab's act was an act of faith and fulfilled the commandment, as was the Egyptian midwives who misled Pharaoh to save the little Hebrew boys. God rewarded them all.

Neither did David violate an ecclesiastical mandate. Ahimelech understood the scope of the law, that it did not forbid mercy when another was in dire need.

 

[Alcott]

"Ahimelech understood the scope of the law, that it did not forbid mercy when another was in dire need."

Did you not previously say, "Stealing is always a sin, even for the necessities of life"? Then Yes or No: If your life is threatened, you can kill another person to preserve it, but can you under any circumstances steal to preserve your life?

 

[fluke]

Exodus 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

Killing an intruder is not considered a capital offense under God's law.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Martyr or not?

If someone wants to lay their life down for a thief that is their business...

As for me it will be hard enough to lay my life down under a clear condition of Christian Persecution and Martyrdom...

For all other situations....

The Angel of the Lord camps around those that fear Him...

If you get past the Angel...

You're Mine!


Mike Sr.