Not sure what gave you that impression, but Truth is the ONLY thing that I am concerned about. I have had to eat crow before. And I will have to eat crow in the future at some point, and as painful as that can be at times I am not above crow eating. But I'm not one of these mindless followers that is going to believe anything you say just because you say it. If you want to have a discussion on Scripture and ask questions of me and are willing to field questions from me then by all means let's get going.
MacArthur On The Dangers of Non-Lordship Doctrine
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin, May 1, 2007.
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Scriptures are what we should be looking at, not doctrinal statements, etc. A doctrinal statement is good to see if you will fit in at a particular assembly or not. -
Don't characterize what I say. You're as wrong as the day is long. -
There are only 2 ultimate destinies -- kingdom of God or lake of fire.
There is no, as you seem to believe though in a different way, such place as "purgatory" -- what you call believers missing "the kingdom of the heavenlies."
I notice that your theology brings the OT typology into play regarding salvation under the new covenant. That is totally misguided! There are "2 folds" and 2 gospels, it is true. There is not a 3rd gospel that is a "hybrid" of OT and NT which seems like what you and those sites describe.
skypair -
What I find disingenuous is the say "PM me and we'll discuss." Isn't that like saying "Let's talk where I can control the playing field?"
No, let's talk here where the "crow" cooked before serving. :laugh:
skypair -
It seems odd to me that I can't count how many times I have been told I am wrong and how seriously wrong I am on this board and to date as of the typing of this post there have been ZERO people that want to enter into a one-on-one conversation.
I don't understand why no one can talk in a one-on-one setting, but has to have a conversation where threads are more often than not hijacked.
The offer still stands that anyone that wants to visit one-on-one is more than welcome to embark on a conversation. And I don't see how I can "control" things. That's just a lame excuse to be blunt. -
I cannot speak for anyone else but I have observed you for a bit now. You lack a level of courtesy and appear arrogant in your responses. You make claims that other views arent in the Bible but do not follow up with why. And the big reason is you see the gospels as being other than what they are so we have no common ground to work from therefore any conversation is a no starter. -
And yes sometimes when people are confident in the way they approach things that can be mistaken as arrogance, but if you truly "knew" me you would know that is not an accurate description. I believe in what I believe, but I understand I have not cornered the market on Truth and so therefore while I stand firm in what I believe it is not such that when shown through Scripture to be in error that I wont' change what I believe. I have done that a few times in the last couple of years. Now I don't know how you get arrogance out of that, but I'll just chalk you up as another one of those folks that talks a talk, but won't back up the talk. And that's not meant as an offense, but it just gets tiresome when all people want to do is throw around cheap phrases without any substance to back them up. -
He makes my point quite well.
One thing that I have learned about Baptists is that it does not matter what the Scriptures say when they contradict a doctrinal statement, a preconceived notion, or whatever, and the most common form of attack is, "You obviously don't care about the truth because you don't agree with me."
BTW, Skypair, you are quite correct when you say, " There are only 2 ultimate destinies..."
J. Jump has said that repeatedly.
You're just incorrect in identifying those two ultimate destinies. One is the lake of fire. But, the Kingdom message is for a limited duration, and you can rule from the heavenlies, or you can rule from the earth, or you can be cast into outer darkness; you can be a servant.
That has no bearing on your ultimate destiny, though, which is being discussed in another thread about "eternity in heaven". -
The lack if intellectual honesty and the manipulation tactics by those of the Kingdom Theology camp is astounding. It is reminiscent of the JWs'. When you cant goad someone in to a fruitless debate then try manipulation. It is as obvious as the day is long.
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That's a good one. And pretty typical I might add. -
Hope of Glory
I'm surprised you would say that. That is an incredibly unfair blanket statement to make. "One thing I've learned about Baptists is...."? So, all Baptists are like this? -
J Jump
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Again I don't see what the big deal is about talking one-on-one with a person? -
Okay -- so WHEN will someone come back to the original point of THIS thread? I believe in the distant past we were chatting about John McArthur...?
JDale -
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The horse is much better now!
Ed -
J Jump
Take care:godisgood: -
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I was referring to Baptists in general, and specifically contrasting them to others. I have been a Baptist since I was a child. I remained a Baptist because at the time, Baptists, in general were interested in the truth. When I was a child, you could walk into a Baptist church, and you would stand about a 40% chance of hearing a good Kingdom message, about a 40% chance of hearing a salvation message being taught to saved people, and about 20% somewhere else, often involving Lordship Salvation.
Today, I find fewer and fewer Baptist churches that are willing to accept anything that contradicts their doctrinal statement. And, if the elders haven't read the doctrinal statement too closely, when you show them something in the doctrinal statement that goes against the popular teaching of the day, "Well, they just didn't know any better."
Does it mean that all Baptists are like that? No. I'm not even sure it would be most. But, it's sizable and growing.
My entire life, I've encountered the "I don't care what the Bible actually says, I believe..." attitude. But, I had an elder explicitly say, "I don't care what the Bible actually says, I just care what the Spirit teaches me". Well, it's not the Holy Spirit that leads you to understand something that is contrary to the actual words.
Now, that does not mean that we are all going to have the same understanding. But, our attitude should be, "let's see what the Scriptures say".
And one thing that I've learned about Baptists (in general) is that it does not matter what the Scriptures say when they contradict a doctrinal statement, a preconceived notion, or whatever, and the most common form of attack is, "You obviously don't care about the truth because you don't agree with me."
I know a KJVO type who is KJVO up until the KJV contradicts something that he already believes. In his opinion, the KJV is the literal and inspired word of God without error. But, when it contradicts his preformed theology, then "we just haven't opened our hearts and minds to the spirit."
Most of my dealings are withing the Baptist church, but outside the Baptist church, it is much the same, although I don't believe it always has been. I believe that at one point, most Baptists put Scriptures first. I now think that it's a minority position.
And this is coming from someone who has had to change many preconcieved ideas over the years.
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