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man's free will
- Thread starter Brutus
- Start date
Romans 5 is one place where the "free will" of man is demonstrated. I don't think Calvinism precludes free will. On the contrary, I think it is very much dependent on man's ability to choose. The question of value isn't whether or not man has free will- the question is "What does the Bible say that man will do with his free will if God does not intervene?" The answer is that "there are none righteous"..."all have sinned"..."the wages of sin are death". Man is totally depraved.
It is completely rhetorical to argue over whether man of his own volition has the ability to choose to be saved. The fact is that the scripture makes it clear that unless God calls a person and gives them the necessary faith to believe, the person will always choose incorrectly. "There is none that doeth good, no, not one"!
[ June 28, 2002, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Scott J ]
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Daniel David
New Member
I find it interesting that you don't offer any kind of Scriptural refutation, Scott. To be quite honest, I am not surprised.
Perhaps it is because the scripture is clear. Man is totally depraved. Our only hope is the grace of God for our salvation... every part of our salvation.
There is only one way to prove this position wrong. Establish with scripture that man is not totally depraved... that he possesses a seed of goodness that will allow him to choose God without God's afore preparing him as a vessel of mercy unto glory.
Is there an instance in scripture where a person chose God before being chosen by God?
Hello, Johnv:
I think the context of this discussion would be "if the unregenerated soul is able of his own free will to choose God or reject God".
The scriptures you quoted are for obedience unto blessings, or disobedience unto chastisement. They are for those who are already God's people.
For what it's worth.
I think the context of this discussion would be "if the unregenerated soul is able of his own free will to choose God or reject God".
The scriptures you quoted are for obedience unto blessings, or disobedience unto chastisement. They are for those who are already God's people.
For what it's worth.
Gotta disagree with you on that one, bro.
The only way man can act on his choices is if the choices fall within the boundaries of his nature, which is corrupt. I mean, when it comes to spiritual things and to submitting to God's sovereignty over all.
This is very clearly illustrated in Jeremiah 13:23
The only creature that God gave a choice to in regards to eternal life or eternal death was Adam, and he chose death over truth and life.
In Adam all are dead and thru Adam condemnation came upon all men. So God did not create puppets.
All men are condemned and unless God acts, no one will choose Him. The amazing thing is that He did choose some to salvation. Those He did not cannot blame Him for in Adam they have made their choice.
Primitive Baptist
New Member
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." (I Jn. 5:1)
The text states, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..." There is a vast difference between the statements "is born of God" and "will be born of God." Faith is an evidence of eternal life, not a condition for obtaining it.
Please post your thoughts on the following verses:
"The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way." (Ps. 37:23)
"Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24)
Certainly God has promised blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience, but let us remember our obedience is only by the grace of God, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Why should I? He didn't.
He said: "The fact is that the scripture makes it clear that unless God calls a person and gives them the necessary faith to believe, the person will always choose incorrectly."
How about this? John 1:9 says that He was the light to enlighten all men. Not all men are saved. Therefore, people, who are completely and utterly depraved and in the dark, can be enlightened by the Spirit, where they can choose to follow the Lord or not.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Or the person who is believing at this time is now at this time a child of God. That's a more simple explanation.
Simple! There isn't a cause and effect here - it's simply a correlation. Find someone who is good, and his steps are ordered by the LORD. Find someone whose steps are ordered by the Lord, and he'll be good.
The way that man works isn't understandable to man, but to God alone. Why do people do what they do? Only God knows.
These people are already saved. After their choice of accepting the gospel, God regenerates them, allowing them to do good.
KenH
Well-Known Member
We must keep the Biblical ordo salutis in mind here.
(John 1:12-13 NKJV) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: {13} who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 13 refers to a past, previous action before believing - "were" means something before something else. Of course, the rest of the verse clearly destroys the idea of man's will having any relationship to his being born again.
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
Ken
Were it not for grace...
Primitive Baptist
New Member
"Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24)
It is simple is it not? Man's goings are of the Lord because they belong to the Lord.
"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; " (Acts 17:26)
It is simple is it not? Man's goings are of the Lord because they belong to the Lord.
"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; " (Acts 17:26)
Primitive Baptist
New Member
Why not answer the reply by our good brother about John 1:13??? I'll be waiting 
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Born AND received are BOTH in the past tense. It is just as possible that both happen at the same time. John 3 talks about such a second birth.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
True, once one is born again, he receives Christ and repents and believes and is justified.
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
Ken
Were it not for grace...</font>[/QUOTE]Scripture? I always thought it was, "Believe in the Lord and THEN you shall be saved." or "He who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." or "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Funny. All these things require man to do something BEFORE they are born again.