Only thing about that is the worm there is allegorical and the reference is literal.
skypair
Mark 9:44 "Where their worm dieth not"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Paul1611, Jul 10, 2007.
Page 2 of 2
-
"Where the tick dieth not" would strike more fear into me.
-
-
-
-
Can you honestly prove that?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a good reference yet to mentioned on the thread is:
Psalms 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.And of course you can tie this in with:
Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.and
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:...so that we now have serpent and worm closely referencing one another, at least within these passages. -
-
skypair -
skypair -
Why couldn't it be both? He was afterall both man and God.
-
You referred to MK (I'm assuming Millinnial Kingdom) as a past thing, is that your stance? -
Back to the allegory and literal reference thing... How can one identify which is which and what is what? And why half and half, why not all literal, or all allegorical?
Would it not be easy to assume since, we as Christians will take on a body like that of our Lord that the lost will take on a body like that of their lord? -
You stated:
Like, it was a literal worm David refernced but allegorical in relation to him being hated by men like a worm.
I don't really know how in the world this guy ties the worm analogy of David to the Fiery Serpent of Moses. They are two completely different animals unless I miss read the Hebrew and it actually stated the fiery 'worm'. But I didn't :thumbs:
However, the serpent was symbolic of the peoples sin, which God sent the fiery serpents in as punishment against them. The symbol of serpent was the curse for their sin, it did not represent them but the curse recieved for their disobedience came. They needed to acknowledge that and repent.
Jesus is that same symbol, the object of our salvation who is Himself that very Salvation.
I notice that no scripture is used to declare when we die "our worm" goes to Heaven. And that in Heaven there were 24 "worms" on thrones and later singing, and casting their crowns. But hey, what do I know. I'm the village idiot. :laugh: -
Scritpure states Satan walks up and down the earth. Kinda hard for a serpent and worm to do since they wiggle and slide. Satan is discribed as a roaring lion as well. So will some unsave people go to hell looking much like a kitty cat?? -
Primary rule of the interpretation of scripture: "If the literal sense makes good sense, seek no other sense."
However, the thought is valid. Christ died to resurrect ALL bodies from sin --- so even the lost get resurrected bodies for the GWT, Rev 20:13. But after the judgment, they experience the 2nd physical death and THEN will be spirits like as Satan for eternity -- condemned to the lake of fire in SPIRITUAL dying throughout eternity.
skypair -
skypair -
But I've been tolerant, until recently, of Camping's views because I thought he was making an application of many of the Puritans' view that conversion must include a "season" of ever-building guilt under the law, by which the sinner eventually responds in total self-loathing and turns to Christ for salvation. I personally do not believe that a prolonged period of condemnation is necessary to conversion. The puritans made the mistake of trying to make their own conversion experience the standard by which to judge others. And that's what Camping has done.
But since I defended him in that post, I've been listening more closely to him and I now agree that he is getting way off track in his soteriology. He's even beginning to deny total depravity now in an effort to answer the question you asked in your post "How then can one plead for God's mercy if he does not have the ability to come to God on God's terms ?"
We certainly shouldn't be surprised at any of his heresies. Anyone that can boldly stand up and declare that he knows what the bible clearly says no man can know (the date of the Lord's return) can not be trusted. -
And as for their worm, I tried to kill some maggots one time. They're hard to kill. At least the ones I was trying to kill were. Bug spray had no effect. I put gasoline on them and it made them angry but not dead. Then I lit the gasoline to burn them, and they would continue to crawl around in the fire until enough heat would finally cause them to explode like pop corn. The whole time this was happening I was wondering if God was giving me a vision of hell!
Sorry to gross you out, but this really happened and I thought it related, and I think it may be the picture that the Lord had in mind with "their worm dieth not". -
I probably should have given a disclaimer at the beginning of my posts on this thread that I do not know the answer to this question but am going to give some opinions and views that I have seen and heard.
My personal position is that whatever it is, it is bad. Since I do believe in a literal hell with a literal fire, I am inclined to believe that this involves a literal worm. How? And to what extent in the context of "their worm", I don't know.
One other position I was made aware of in this passage is that the worm is a worm that has the sole purpose of consuming the never dying flesh over and over. Consuming as in Isa 66:24, Job 7:5, Job 19:26, and Acts 12:23.
The problem is, I cannot remember, for the life of me, where I heard that view...
oh well.
I can say this, I do thank the Lord that I will never personally know this from experience.
Page 2 of 2