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Featured Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Nov 9, 2023.

  1. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

    This passage records that Jesus began to show His disciples that He had to go to Jerusalem, suffer many things from various Jewish leaders, be killed, and be raised again the third day.

    Peter responded to Jesus' teaching by rebuking Him and saying, "Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee." Saying this, Peter expressed strongly his desire that Jesus not suffer at the hands of the Jewish authorities and be killed and be raised again the third day, as He had just said was going to happen to Him.

    Shockingly, Jesus responded to Peter's statement by addressing Peter as Satan! Saying this, Jesus undeniably communicated that what Peter said was not of God, but rather was what Satan wanted. Peter's statements thus were an expression of the desires of both men and Satan that Jesus would not suffer at the hands of the Jewish authorities and be killed and be raised again the third day.

    Again, undeniably in this passage, Jesus taught that Peter's not wanting Jesus to suffer at the hands of the Jewish authorities and be killed and be raised again on the third day was of Satan and men and not of God.

    Jesus' teaching in Matthew 16:21-23 shows that Satan influenced Peter (in some unstated manner about which we are not told) so that Peter did not want Jesus to "go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."

    A biblical understanding about what Scripture reveals about Satan's role in the crucifixion of Jesus must account for what Jesus explicitly said on this occasion that directly pertains to that subject.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for this, @Scripture More Accurately. I did present those verses before on another thread (though not so well as you have) and they were quietly ignored. It is entirely logical that Satan's efforts would be directed to preventing our Lord from dying on the cross, thereby disobeying His Father and becoming unsuitable as a Saviour for His people.
     
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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I am going to fast and pray about whether I should be grieved, if not simply fatigued, at all these posts where Satan is so heavily emphasized and raised up to prominence, as the principal main attraction and first in order of importance, and main one behind the death of Jesus, as if the death of Jesus was "by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of Satan."

    What's the attraction and obsession with Satan, only?

    Horror, of Horrors, you know, I bet there is some actual reason behind this puff Satan business.

    And, I'll have to find out, but I really don't want to know.
    ...

    "Shockingly, Jesus responded to Peter's statement by addressing Peter as Satan! Saying this, Jesus undeniably communicated that what Peter said was not of God, but rather was what Satan wanted."

    So, Jesus undeniably communicated that what Peter said, about not wanting Jesus to die, was not of God. That says that for Jesus to die was God's will.

    You are saying that Satan agreed with Peter when he said, "Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee."

    Satan didn't want to think about any consideration of Jesus being killed, and was dead set against Jesus being crucified?

    You say in your next statement that you believe what Peter said about wanting to stop Jesus from dying was, an "an expression of the desires of... Satan that Jesus would not ... be killed and be raised again the third day."

    Satan didn't want Jesus to die?

    Satan knew Jesus would rise from the dead?


    Satan knew Jesus would rise from the dead, and did not desire that Jesus be crucified?

    "Peter's statements thus were an expression of the desires of both men and Satan that Jesus would not suffer at the hands of the Jewish authorities and be killed and be raised again the third day."
    ...

    Although, Peter didn't deliver up Jesus to be crucified, Judas, Pilate, the Jews and soldiers did and they were all most certainly influenced by Satan to do so.

    However, Satan didn't work out any kind of murdering scheme that wasn't 1.) the absolutely determined will of the Lord Jesus, God of the Universe, and 2.) The Activity of God in His Omnipotent Providence.

    Your Satan you seemingly want to exalt, is a miniscule pawn, that had a role to play, as just a sideshow idiosyncrasy used by God in His overall Eternal Plan.

    Satan is doomed.

    Acts 2:23
    "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"

    "Him being delivered,"....

    1.) By himself, according to his own will, for he gave, or delivered himself for his people;

    2.) and by his Father, who spared him not, but delivered him up for us all;

    3.) and by Judas, one of his disciples, who, for a sum of money, delivered him into the hands of the Jews;

    4.) and by them he was delivered up to Pilate, the Roman governor; and by him

    5.) back again to the Jews, and to the soldiers, to crucify him:

    "and all this by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God;

    "God not only foreknew that it would be, but determined that it should be, who does all things after the counsel of his own will;

    "and this for the salvation of his people,

    "and for the glorifying of his divine perfections:

    "though this fixed resolution, settled purpose, and wise determination of God, did not in the least excuse the sin of Judas in betraying him, or of Pilate in condemning him, or of the Jews in crucifying him; nor did it at all infringe the liberty of their wills in acting, who did what they did, not by force, but voluntarily:"
    ...

    Here, you have a red flag conundrum here , with regard to the BB, maybe, sort of.

    Maybe, being Jesus, He'd just get a pass.

    Anyway, first of all we have Jesus calling someone Satan, which I believe could be viewed here, as Jesus accusing someone else of being lost.

    "What else does calling someone Satan mean", is the last thing we may hear, before being banned, for questioning someone's Salvation,

    AND, for not having a Christlike Spirit.

    But, this is your,
    "Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus", post.

    I might just need to post another thread, like,
    "Would Jesus be Banned from the BB, for not being Christlike?"

    It's a mystery. :Sick:Rolleyes:(
     
    #3 Alan Gross, Nov 9, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2023
  4. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome. I do want to point out that my post was about what this particular passage establishes--I am not saying that this passage conclusively establishes what we are to think about the subject in its totality.
     
  5. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Your post is far too long to engage with meaningfully.

    I did not glorify Satan in what I posted. My post brought out truth from what Jesus said in a specific passage that reveals important truth about a specific subject.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    That's not at all true. No passages you've posted have been quietly ignored.

    I challenge you, pinpoint the passage that I've ignored, and I'll address it.
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
    15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3

    Give us your 'biblical understanding' of what God meant by 'bruising His heel'. Is it different from traditional orthodox PSA views?

    "...bruise the heel of the seed of the woman. On the cross Satan bruised the heel of Christ, causing His death.

    Bruising suggests something that was not ultimate or final. Christ died on our behalf being made sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21). He bore our judgment upon Calvary's cross and, in doing so, bruised His heel. Though wounded, the damage done to Jesus was not final, for He came back from the dead three days later….”
    What Does Genesis 3:15 Mean?

    “…But the seed of the woman was made sin and a curse for us, so saving us from both. (2.) His sufferings and death, pointed at in Satan’s bruising his heel, that is, his human nature. Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness, to draw him into sin; and some think it was Satan that terrified Christ in his agony, to drive him to despair. It was the devil that put it into the heart of Judas to betray Christ, of Peter to deny him, of the chief priests to prosecute him, of the false witnesses to accuse him, and of Pilate to condemn him, aiming in all this, by destroying the Saviour, to ruin the salvation; but, on the contrary, it was by death that Christ destroyed him that had the power of death, Heb. 2:14. Christ’s heel was bruised when his feet were pierced and nailed to the cross, and Christ’s sufferings are continued in the sufferings of the saints for his name. The devil tempts them, casts them into prison, persecutes and slays them, and so bruises the heel of Christ, who is afflicted in their afflictions. But, while the heel is bruised on earth, it is well that the head is safe in heaven….”
    MHCW Genesis 3 Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

    “…(2.) His sufferings and death, pointed at in Satan's bruising his heel, that is, his human nature….”|
    Wesley Genesis 3 Wesley's Notes

    “…to see in the words, “thou shalt bruise his heel,” a prediction of the sufferings and crucifixion of our Lord, as “the seed” of the woman; and in the words, “it shall bruise thy head,” the victory of the Crucified and Risen Son of Man over the forces of sin and death….”
    Cambridge Bible Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    “…In the curse God also speaks of “the seed of the woman”. That is a clear reference to the Lord Jesus (Gal 4:4). He will bruise satan on the head, while satan will bruise him on the heel. If the heel is bruised, it is impossible to walk. With the Lord Jesus this happens when people, led by satan, pierce His feet on the cross and kill Him. But just by the cross He obtains victory and bruises satan on the head (Col 2:15)….”
    King Genesis 3 Kingcomments Bible Studies

    “…How may Satan be said to have bruised Christ’s heel? (For the answer see Isaiah 50:1-11; Isaiah 53:1-12, Psalm 22:1-31; Psalm 69:1-36, and the chapters of the Gospels that speak of Christ’s sufferings and crucifixion.)…”
    James Gray Genesis 3 James Gray - Concise Bible Commentary
     
    #7 kyredneck, Nov 10, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2023
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  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    “…In the third item of this marvelous prophecy reference is made to a double bruising, the woman”s Seed shall bruise the Serpentï”s head, and the Serpent should bruise His heel. The last clause in this prediction has already become history. The bruising of the heel of the womanï”s Seed is a symbolical reference to the sufferings and death of our Savior, who was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities….”
    A.W. Pink A. W. PINK COLLECTION GLEANINGS IN GENESIS

    “…His sufferings and death; pointed at in Satan's bruising his heel, that is, his human nature. And Christ's sufferings are continued in the sufferings of the saints for his name. The devil tempts them, persecutes and slays them; and so bruises the heel of Christ, who is afflicted in their afflictions. But while the heel is bruised on earth, the Head is in heaven….”
    Matthew Henry Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    “…thou shalt bruise his heel—The serpent wounds the heel that crushes him; and so Satan would be permitted to afflict the humanity of Christ and bring suffering and persecution on His people….”|
    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    “…If it be applied to the Seed of the woman, Christ, his heel may note either his humanity, whereby he trod upon the earth, which indeed the devil, by God’s permission, and the hands of wicked men, did bruise and kill; or his saints and members upon the earth, whom the devil doth in diverse manners bruise, and vex, and afflict, while he cannot reach their Head, Christ, in heaven, nor those of his members who are or shall be advanced thither….”
    Matthew poole Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    And I will put enmity between {o} thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy {p} head, and thou shalt {q} bruise his heel.

    (o) He chiefly means Satan, by whose action and deceit the serpent deceived the woman.

    (p) That is, the power of sin and death.

    (q) Satan shall sting Christ and his members, but not overcome them.
    Geneva Study Bible Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    “…Jesus Christ died to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself, and to destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil. Thus he bruises his head - destroys his power and lordship over mankind, turning them from the power of Satan unto God; Acts 26:18. And Satan bruises his heel - God so ordered it, that the salvation of man could only be brought about by the death of Christ; and even the spiritual seed of our blessed Lord have the heel often bruised, as they suffer persecution, temptation, etc….”
    Clarke's Commentary Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    “…Thou shalt bruise his heel — The part which is most within the serpent’s reach, and on which, being bruised by it, the serpent is provoked to fix its venomous teeth, but a part remote from the head and heart, and therefore wounds there, though painful, are yet not deadly nor dangerous, if they be observed in time. Understood of Christ, the seed of the woman, his heel means, first, his humanity, whereby he trod upon the earth, and which the devil, through the instrumentality of wicked men, bruised and killed;…”
    Benson Commentary Genesis 3:15 Commentaries: And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

    “…The seed of the serpent would bruise the heel of the seed of the woman. On the cross Satan bruised the heel of Christ, causing His death. Bruising suggests something that was not ultimate or final. Christ died on our behalf being made sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21). He bore our judgment upon Calvary's cross and, in doing so, bruised His heel. Though wounded, the damage done to Jesus was not final, for He came back from the dead three days later….”
    What Does Genesis 3:15 Mean?

    “…Satan was integral in the betrayal, arrest, torture, and execution of Jesus. During Jesus’ final meal with his disciples, Satan entered into Judas to betray Jesus (Jn. 13:2, 27; Lk. 22:3). Revelation 12 tells us that Satan couldn’t wait to get his hands on Jesus, so that he could “devour” him (Rev. 12:4)….”
    Why Did Satan Crucify Jesus? | Evidence Unseen

    “…It was at the cross that Jesus was bruised. Yes, it was in the purpose and plan of God. Yes, it was God letting His Son be punished for our sins. Yes, it was the just wrath of God. But at the same time it was Satan who was inflicting these bruises. The sufferings of Christ on the cross was His bruise. And as I said, it healed very fast. It only took a few hours before Jesus said, “It is finished,” and in triumph gave His life up.

    This bruise served the purpose of God. Sure, it was inflicted by Satan, because Satan was the source of sin. Satan was the source of the corrupt world system. Satan was the tempter who plunged the whole human race into sin. So in a great way, Satan is responsible for all of this. Therefore he’s responsible for the bruising of Jesus, even though it’s within the framework of God’s judicial purpose….”
    https://www.masters.edu/thinking_blog/bruised-heel-crushed-head/
     
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  9. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Not interacting with the OP and instead setting forth your own passage and subject for discussion is how people hijack other people's threads. If you are not interested in hijacking my thread, I welcome your carefully engaging with the specific content of the OP.

    In any case, I am not interested in any discussion of PSA or any other views of atonement.

    I am also not interested in your posting in this thread repeatedly the same old collection of comments from commentators. You have the other threads for doing so.
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus

    From what I understand the word 'explicite' to mean, Jesus here makes some statements about the roles "the elders and chief priests and scribes" were to have in His crucifixion, while Jesus doesn't explicitly mention Satan, or his role.

    Peter disagrees with Jesus, with regard to the prospect of Jesus being killed and says, "Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee."

    Jesus here explicitly calls Peter, "Satan", but does not say anything about Satan, explicitly.

    Jesus explicitly states, in verse 23, that Peter, "savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

    What Peter said, with regard to the prospect of Jesus being killed, "Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee", is said to not "be of God", explicitly by Jesus, and that those words of Peter's where, "those that be of men."

    Jesus does not "undeniably communicate", or state explicitly, a word about what Satan wanted, or what Satan didn't want.

    We do not have anything said here, by Jesus, about what Satan wanted.

    We do not know what Satan wanted.

    We do not know from this passage, if Satan wanted Jesus killed, and we do not know from this passage, if Satan did not want Jesus killed.

    We do know that if Satan did not want Jesus killed, as Scripture More Accurately states in the next post, then the O.P., being confined to, "Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus, is claiming Satan's role in the Crucifixion of Jesus, was that Satan did not want Jesus to die.

    To say that Satan's role in the Crucifixion of Jesus was that Satan didn't what Jesus to die, is a pretty incredible explicit assertion to make, for one thing, but that would also logically imply, secondly, that Satan may not have ever had any role in the Crucifixion of Jesus, at all, because this poster's claim is that Satan did not want Jesus to die, any more than Peter did.

    Rather than, "Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus", as the Title of the O.P., it now should be indicating, instead that in, "Matthew 16:21-23 Satan had no role he was to play and Satan never wanted to have any role in the Crucifixion of Jesus".

    Satan is said to desire that Jesus not be killed, in this passage, by Scripture More Accurately, as being what Satan's role in Jesus Crucifixion was(?)

    In other words, Satan had no role in the Crucifixion of Jesus and Satan did not desire to have a role in the Crucifixion of Jesus.

    Again, undeniably in this passage, Jesus DID NOT teach that Peter's not wanting Jesus to be killed was of Satan.

    No mention is taught explicitly by Jesus regarding what Satan wanted, or didn't want, in this passage, undeniably.


    Jesus' EXPLICIT teaching in Matthew 16:21-23 DOES NOT SHOW that Satan influenced Peter, in any manner, about anything, or: (in some unstated manner about which we are not told) so that Peter did not want Jesus to...be killed.

    While nothing in the entire O.P., cites any words of Jesus explicitly saying anything about "Satan's role in the crucifixion of Jesus", the O.P., does make the argument that Satan desired no role in the Crucifixion of Jesus.

    This is said by Scripture More Accurately to be, "A biblical understanding about what Scripture reveals", as an, "account for what Jesus explicitly said on this occasion that directly pertains to that subject", of "Satan's role in the crucifixion of Jesus" and/or I suppose, now, Satan's lack of desire to have a role in the crucifixion of Jesus.
    ...

    Not surprisingly, these developments gave rise to some God-honest questions from the peanut gallery;

    Rather than answer, Scripture More Accurately, stepped aside, below;

    Since, your explicit supposion is that Satan desired to have no role in the Crucifixion of Jesus, I supposed you didn't glorify Satan, after all, or represent he nor Jesus accurately, or honestly, at all, in what you posted.

    If it did, where did "Jesus" say anything about this "specific subject" that "reveals important truth about a specific subject", in your "post", where you, "brought out truth"?

    This would be if, "Satan's role in the Crucifixion", in the Title, wasn't confined firmly to the passage also stated in the Title, only.

    That is, if there was any true interest in, "Satan's role in the Crucifixion", overall.

    Obviously, as stated below, "your carefully engaging with the specific content of the OP", would mean the entire Title as it reads, inclusively, and not anything else, including what the Titled had to be changed to(?)

     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    'Satan' does not necessarily mean 'the devil', which in this case it does not, it means opponent, or adversary, which Peter was acting as, just as anyone who loved Jesus would have opposed Him getting Himself killed.

    23 and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.` Mt 16

    There is no indication that 'the devil' entered into Peter, or that permission was obtained as required in Luke 22:31. The word satan was used here in it's primary sense:

    1. adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act),

    "...there is no evidence that the Lord Jesus meant to apply this term to Peter, as signifying that he was Satan or the devil, or that he used the term in anger. He may have used it in the general sense which the word bore as an adversary or opposer; and the meaning may be, that such sentiments as Peter expressed then were opposed to him and his plans. His interference was improper. His views and feelings stood in the way of the accomplishment of the Saviour's designs...."
    Barnes Notes On The Bible

    And in no way has 'the devil' ever minded the things of men. He makes them sick and diseased and demon possessed and causes misery among them.
     
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  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I was responding to the subject title of the thread - ' Matthew 16:21-23 and 'Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus' and had/have no interest in hijacking your thread.

    Neither am I. When it comes to atonement theories, I am a bonafide mugwump.
     
  13. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Good, I am glad to hear that your intent is neither to hijack my thread nor to discuss atonement theories.
     
  14. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    This is how some people interpret the passage. There is not anything that is in the passage that requires that we accept this interpretation.

    Notice how Barnes uses words to say that this interpretation is only a possible one and is not an interpretation that is certain: "he may have used it . . . the meaning may be" (emphasis added to the original). I reject Barnes' claim that the word is being used only in the general sense.
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    K. Does your interpretation assume that 'the devil' can enter into anyone at any time in order to 'influence them'' as you say Peter was influenced?
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I was not think particularly of you.
    But I was thinking specifically of the text in the O.P., Matthew 16:21-23, and all I recall is you trotting out reams of stuff concerning another text, just as you have done here.
     
  17. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    The Bible does not teach that Satan has to enter someone in order to influence them. Scripture speaks of Satan's provoking David to number the people (1 Chron. 21:1), but it does not say that Satan entered him.
     
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  18. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    I would appreciate your not using this kind of unnecessarily antagonistic language ("organ grinder," "monkey") toward anyone in this thread. Such words do not serve any edifying purpose.
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are making an assumption.

    The normal reading of the passage does not indicate a desire of Satan but rather a temptation of Christ. This is further demonstrated in the Garden as Christ prayed that the cup pass.

    "Satan" means adversary. There is satan in a general sense and then there is Satan as the Devil (the Adversary of man).

    This is what Scripture says about the influence of the Devil as directly related to Christ's death:

    John 8:37–46 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus *said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? "


    You are making an error, one often made, by considering the Devil as God's equal.

    But the Devil has come down to you with great fury, because he knows his time is short. Satan means adversary. The Devil knows God will prevail, that God's Word will stand. He has great anger because he knows his time is short.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Care to share what you believe to be 'Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus"?
     
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