McLaren to Celebrate Ramadan with Muslims

[Marcia]

Many people said several years ago that Brian McLaren was drifting from orthodoxy and they were criticized for it. However, time has proved them right. Here is yet another example:

http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives/blog/ramadan-2009-part-1-whats-going.html

This year, I, along with a few Christian friends (and perhaps others currently unknown to us will want to join in) will be joining Muslim friends in the fast which begins August 21. We are not doing so in order to become Muslims: we are deeply committed Christians. But as Christians, we want to come close to our Muslim neighbors and to share this important part of life with them. Just as Jesus, a devout Jew, overcame religious prejudice and learned from a Syrophonecian woman and was inspired by her faith two thousand years ago (Matthew 15:21 ff, Mark 7:24 ff), we seek to learn from our Muslim sisters and brothers today. <MORE>

The worse part of this is saying that Jesus "learned" something from the Syrophonecian woman and was "inspired" by her!

 

[preachinjesus]

I don't know who can, at this point, reasonably defend McLaren and claim to be consistent with Scripture. His positions are mind blowing and seem to try to position himself best for his next book.

I'm observing a time during Ramadan...a time to pray for the salvation of those in the false religion of Islam.

 

[Johnv]

I don't know McLaren's motive, and I suspect it's not to be a Christian witness to the lost, so I'm not going to pretend to defend him. However, Pauls says to let no one judge you, and I think I know one of the reasons why.

Years ago, my sister-in-law was married to a Muslim man. We occaisionally joined them for Ramadan, and they occaisionally joined us for Christmas. Never had any spiritual problem with it in the slightest. I've joined Jewish friends for Rosh Hashana, too, and never had a problem with that either (and the last time I checked, Jews deny the trinity).

Recently, my brother in law passed away from a sudden form of cancer. It was dibilitating. He accepted Christ on his deathbed. He said one of the things that drew him to Christ was that we never judged him or looked our nosed at his ways when we were invited to his house. We respected his ways, and that drew him to our ways. He said he realized it was the Holy Spirit working in him by our actions.

So if anyone ever judges me for having gone to a Muslim's house for Ramadan, I'd probably tell 'em to look at the three fingers pointing back instead of the one pointing at me.

 

[donnA]

Jesus did not particpate in false religions.

 

[Revmitchell]

....................................................................................................

 

[matt wade]

Guess I should start looking at the three fingers pointing back at me, because participating in Ramadan is just wrong.

 

[tinytim]

I don't know McLaren's motive, and I suspect it's not to be a Christian witness to the lost, so I'm not going to pretend to defend him. However, Pauls says to let no one judge you, and I think I know one of the reasons why.

Years ago, my sister-in-law was married to a Muslim man. We occaisionally joined them for Ramadan, and they occaisionally joined us for Christmas. Never had any spiritual problem with it in the slightest. I've joined Jewish friends for Rosh Hashana, too, and never had a problem with that either (and the last time I checked, Jews deny the trinity).

Recently, my brother in law passed away from a sudden form of cancer. It was dibilitating. He accepted Christ on his deathbed. He said one of the things that drew him to Christ was that we never judged him or looked our nosed at his ways when we were invited to his house. We respected his ways, and that drew him to our ways. He said he realized it was the Holy Spirit working in him by our actions.

So if anyone ever judges me for having gone to a Muslim's house for Ramadan, I'd probably tell 'em to look at the three fingers pointing back instead of the one pointing at me.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Like some others, I went to a passover dinner at a friends house. My wife and I were the only Christians there. All else were rather religious Jews. They knew I was a pastor but welcomed me. In the course of the meal, they asked if baptists have "anything like this". I told them about the Lord's Supper and how it is part of the Passover meal. It was an opportunity to talk about Jesus.

With that said, McLaren is going farther off the rails all the time. This is seen pretty clearly in his comment about Jesus learning and being inspired.

Of course, I also was involved in a Ramdan celebration. We traveled to Jordan on a trip to Israel during Ramadan. We couldn't find anything to eat or any restaurant, so we had to fast during the day. By the time the night came, we were one starving group of people. :laugh:

 

[billwald]

>Jesus did not particpate in false religions.

Interesting observation. How does a religion that doesn't change its theology degenerate from a true religion to a false religion? <G>

 

[donnA]

So you think islam is a true religion?

 

[tinytim]

I think he is talking about how Jesus participated in Judaism. And how Judaism is now a false religion.. although it wasn't then... but when they refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah.. they are now false, and on their way to Hell.

 

[donnA]

That is not what I was talking about.
Many false religions and religeous pratices existed in the bible times, like they do today. Did Jesus participate in them? No He did not. Like wise neither should we, there is no real excuse for playing in false religions.

 

[matt wade]

If a friend was a worshipper of satan, would you participate in their satanic rituals? I mean, gosh, you wouldn't want to offend them! So, you had better sacrifice some animals and maybe a human or two, just to make sure you don't appear to shun them.

Celebrating ramadan is the same thing. It is worship of satan.

 

[donnA]

exactly matt wade

 

[matt wade]

exactly matt wade

I was beginning to think I was the only person left around here that thought that. Thanks for letting me know I'm not.

 

[donnA]

matt, anything less would be compromise

 

[Marcia]

I don't know McLaren's motive, and I suspect it's not to be a Christian witness to the lost, so I'm not going to pretend to defend him. However, Pauls says to let no one judge you, and I think I know one of the reasons why.

Years ago, my sister-in-law was married to a Muslim man. We occaisionally joined them for Ramadan, and they occaisionally joined us for Christmas. Never had any spiritual problem with it in the slightest. I've joined Jewish friends for Rosh Hashana, too, and never had a problem with that either (and the last time I checked, Jews deny the trinity).

Judaism and Ramadan have nothing, absolutely nothing in common. Jesus was Jewish and went to the synagogues. I cannot see Jesus celebrating Ramadan in honor of a false god, Allah.

It's not just celebrating Ramadan that the article talks about. McLaren also speaks of Jesus "learning" from the Syrophoenician woman and being "inspired" by her. This is so far off the map; it is outrageous.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I don't know McLaren's motive, and I suspect it's not to be a Christian witness to the lost, so I'm not going to pretend to defend him. However, Pauls says to let no one judge you, and I think I know one of the reasons why.

Years ago, my sister-in-law was married to a Muslim man. We occaisionally joined them for Ramadan, and they occaisionally joined us for Christmas. Never had any spiritual problem with it in the slightest. I've joined Jewish friends for Rosh Hashana, too, and never had a problem with that either (and the last time I checked, Jews deny the trinity).

Recently, my brother in law passed away from a sudden form of cancer. It was dibilitating. He accepted Christ on his deathbed. He said one of the things that drew him to Christ was that we never judged him or looked our nosed at his ways when we were invited to his house. We respected his ways, and that drew him to our ways. He said he realized it was the Holy Spirit working in him by our actions.

I always find these stories dubious, at best. The Holy Spirit simply does not move that way. You cannot find Christ celebrating another faith, and you cannot find one biblical prophet converting anyone by a message of "non-judgment". Every conversion in scripture is a result of conviction of sin, thru a message of separation & repentance. Remember Johah's sermon ? Converted an entire city.

I hate to say I don't believe yer story, but I don't believe yer story.

 

[Revmitchell]

I always find these stories dubious, at best. The Holy Spirit simply does not move that way. You cannot find Christ celebrating another faith, and you cannot find one biblical prophet converting anyone by a message of "non-judgment". Every conversion in scripture is a result of conviction of sin, thru a message of separation & repentance. Remember Johah's sermon ? Converted an entire city.

I hate to say I don't believe yer story, but I don't believe yer story.

Yea he seems to have quite a few of these type anecdotes for non judgmental reasons. A little to convenient.

 

[Johnv]

I don't necessarily agree with McLaren here, but is it your contention that Jesus didn't learn while he was on this earth? If he was human, he learned all his life, as alll humans do. Luke 2:40 even notes that, as he grew in stature, he also grew in wisdom.

In regards to the monotheistic worship of the Muslim faith, the Judaism of Jesus' day was different than today, because Jews categorically deny the true nature of God, which is triune. Yet those who admonish worship of Muslims (or, for that matter, most other monotheistic faiths) usually give a free pass to worship with Jews.

I hate to say I don't believe yer story, but I don't believe yer story.

I can't help but notice that your reaons for not believing it isn't because of the content, but because it doesn't fit your concept of what a person's conversion shoudl be like. If you dont' believe my account, that's your prerogative, but in my many years of being on this board, I don't think you'll ever find a single instance of me being disingenuous. Mistaken, sure, but disingenuous, no.

ANd for the record, I generally don't subscribe to the "refrain from judgement" mentality. I do, however, subscribe to the "refrain from unrighteous judgement" mentality.