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Mike Pence at Liberty University

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by davidtaylorjr, May 13, 2019.

  1. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 5
    10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
    12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
     
  3. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Christians are certainly persecuted in other countries. An Indian man I talked to one time told me that when he converted from Hindu to Christianity his life was immediately in danger both in India and Thailand.

    Christians are not really persecuted in the U.S. What some call persecution is the government's unwillingness to subject people of other faiths to Christian beliefs. This is call freedom of religion not persecution.
     
  4. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Those who call themselves Christians but defend and embrace all manner of immorality may not experience much persecution. However, “all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” Unbelievers hound believers wherever and whenever they can.

    “Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived,” (2 Tim 3:12-13).
     
  5. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    I believe that the Kingdom of God is separate and far better than any of the kingdoms of this world. That includes America which is just one of the kingdoms of this world. Trying to combine one thing which is perfect (the Kingdom of God) and one which is flawed (America) always results in damage to the perfect one (the Kingdom of God). My primary allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. If I consider it necessary, I will follow the laws of the Kingdom of God over the laws of America.. I'm, willing to go to prison if necessary just as Paul and many other early Christians did.
    Jesus is King.png

    Remember that Jesus emphatically said He did not come to create a worldly kingdom. His Kingdom is a heavenly one. Neither did He or any of the early Christians try to change the existing earthly powers primarily Rome. Those who claim that the battle for a Christian is to change America to become a "Christian Nation" have their priorities mixed up. Our battle is not with flesh and blood but with the powers and principalities of Satin. There has never been and never will be a "Christian Nation." You're fighting the wrong battle.
     
    #5 FollowTheWay, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    You are preaching to the choir.
     
  7. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    No, I'm not. Doesn't anyone here call America a Christian nation? Don't you equate advances towards Christian law in America is good for the Kingdom? The Kingdom of God and the nations of this world including America obtain their power in exactly opposite ways. America obtains power through a top down approach primarily through military and economic force. The Kingdom of God obtains its force just as Jesus did which if by being humble and of service to all including enemies. Jesus washed the feet of Judas who He knew was about to betray Him! No American leader has ever done anything like that. Our armies are not Christian armies. They are American armies. There are no Christian armies which kill their enemies.Christian armies don't carry guns but bibles and their mission is spread the gospel of peace and love.
     
  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    If that isn't yet another trademark non sequitur, I don't know what is. "You're fighting the wrong battle," sounds like projecting.
     
  9. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    No. However...

    "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin condemns any people." --Proverbs 14:34
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Repeat you are preaching to the choir.

    True, the rule of God in his omniscience reigns over the entire universe (like the LAW of Gravity) but His kingdom does not contain earth in its fallen state with the devil holding sway over earth and its human kingdoms and their fallen inhabitants.

    1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

    Kingdomology 101.
     
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  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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  12. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    The only real persecution of Christians I've seen was the persecution of Catholics especially when JFK was running for president.
     
  13. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    As an example, the state of Colorado severely persecuted a Christian baker who declined to design a cake honoring homosexual marriage. They hounded him all the way to the US Supreme Court. But there are many more examples of unbelievers attempting to impose their immorality on Christians.

    Whether in the work place or in the home, in educational institutions or even in houses of worship, they are intent on making it illegal to mention that their practices are immoral even to one's own children. Only someone "with eyes wide shut" could fail to see these malign forces at work throughout Western society.
     
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  14. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    It happens to be the law to not discriminate against anyone. He can choose to disobey the law. Martin Luther King Jr. did that and suffered the consequences. Or he can work to change the law.
     
  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Another blind and ignorant observation. He won at the Supreme Court level, and rightly so, because it followed the Constitution, whereas the state of Colorado was decidedly anti-Christian. Religious freedom is under attack, especially if the religion is Christian—another way to put it is “persecution of Christians.”
     
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  16. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    That is not true. Christians are persecuted in America. The persecution of the baker who would not make a cake for a gay wedding was just such a case. He was not subjecting anyone to his Christian beliefs. Rather, he was being told to bow to the demands of homosexuals or face prosecution. He didn't bow, they prosecuted him and they lost and freedom of religion won. Freedom of religion is not the stifling of rights of Christians to openly practice their faith.

    The truth is that the Left continues to show us the kind of Stalinist police-state they would subject America to if they ever get their hands on the levers of power in this country.
     
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  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I have tried to be circumspect in warning Christians in America about persecution. I feel a little odd calling some of the things we experience in the U.S. "persecution" while in some other country extremists might march a group of Christians out on a beach and behead them.

    But this thread has made me do some "rethinking" about the proper way to express this. While there may be differences in the degree and kind of persecution, it does not mean some of the things that happen in the U.S. -- like the deliberate hostility toward the baker in Colorado, some even after the Supreme Court decision in his favor -- are not persecution. They are. We have to understand that the way "enlightened Westerners" persecute Christians is going to take a different form than the way ISIS, for example, persecutes Christians.
     
    #17 rlvaughn, May 20, 2019 at 3:36 PM
    Last edited: May 20, 2019 at 3:46 PM
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  18. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    The baker did not discriminate against anyone. He was the one being discriminated against. He served homosexuals in his store all of the time. He did not decline to make a cake for homosexuals on the grounds that they were homosexuals. He declined to make a wedding cake that glorifies something that violates his faith and he did not want to use his craft to glorify sin.

    The only way a discrimination claim could be upheld is if he denied service to homosexuals in his store and he did not do that.

    It's funny how the left doesn't file discrimination suits against Muslim bakeries that won't make gay wedding cakes. That would be considered a religious freedom violation. No one goes to a kosher deli and asks for a ham and cheese party tray for a Church Christmas party. But it appears to be okay to harass Christians who are not hurting anyone and who simply want to live peacefully with their neighbors.
     
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  19. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Active Member

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    That's the liberal way of getting around having to actually contend for the faith and stand against the immorality and perversion that is infiltrating our churches and our schools. Christians are called to be salt and light. That means that we engage the culture, and not simply use "spreading the Gospel" as a shield to hide behind when it comes to having to confront the sin and perversion of the world.

    We can speak out against what the world is doing AND we can spread the Gospel. It is not an either/or proposition. We are called to be light that exposes darkness. We are to call out sin and call the world to repentance.
     
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The law can not violate individual rights granted by the COTUS. The state of Colorado was in violation of the law.
     
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