Montana is the Third State to Permit Doctor-Assisted Suicide

The link is my invitation which I notice that you again decline.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63418

Too bad your character is not as strong as your words.

 

First of all, I refuse to have this thread hijacked as you have others. Second, anyone who defends the Nazi-like actions of IRS agents against American citizens has no right to even mutter the word character.

 

The link takes you to another thread where we can discuss your baseless accusations - so no hijacking of the thread.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63418

Why the timidity?

Your words are so strong - what do you fear?

 

Well lets see. I fear the Lord, and sometimes my wife. This is what I do not fear. Our anti-Constitutional government and lemmings who support it.

 

It must be very tiring battling your own strawmen. :tongue3:

 

Ummm, yes you did. You infer they are not responsible for their sinful act.

 

So, by your statements (and we all know that you are the authority on all matters!), anyone with bipolar disorder should be confined to a mental institution. They are unstable and have no control over themselves. If they are unable to control themselves from killing self, what's going to stop them from killing, or seriously injuring, others?

So, let's see, a person with BP has enough self control to order everyone out of the room, yet not enough to stop from killing self? Sorry, I don't buy it and your earlier statements contradict that. You yourself have told us they have little to no control over themselves. If they are going to kill themselves in a loss of self control, they are not in the state of mind to worry about the safety of others and order them out of the room.

 

That's totally different from claiming that it's a license to sin. Totally different. And I think I've made it clear since then that I don't believe it's a license to sin. I also never said "not responsible for their sinful act".

There's no way on earth you would get that from anything I said. Sheesh!

 

What ? You said just that, John. You called me ignorant for saying it was a sin.

You are playing word games, as usual. There is never an excuse to sin. Shame on you for trying to justify evil.

You should have stopped many pages ago.

 

Yes...there is. You state that a person is unable to control their actions in regards to killing themselves. If they are unable to control those actions, what will stop them in regards to killing someone else? You yourself have told us they are unable to control themselves.

If they are able to control themselves, then it is obviously a sin, because by exercising self control they can stop from committing sin. If they are unable to control themselves, they may not be sinning, but they are a danger to society and need to be locked up.

 

My comment wasn't in any way discussing social or political ramifications regarding persons afflicted with bipolar disorder. If you're interested in such a discussion, it's probably better left for a different thread.

 

Translation: Matt's logic has confounded me and I'm at a loss of how to try and spin a reply. :thumbsup: :laugh:

 

And I stand by that. You're categorically saying that suicide is always a sin. I'm saying it's not always categorically a sin. If a father pushes his child out of the way of an oncoming car, knowing he will get hit by the car, his action takes his life, but it's not a sin. When a soldier sacrifices himself by laying his body on a detonating bomb so his comrades don't get killed, he's committing suicide, but it's not a sin. Likewise, if a person's bipolar disorder causes him to take his own life, it's likely not a sin. In all these cases, a person wilfully does something to end his life, but it's a car, a bomb, or an illness that is the instrument of death. In those cases, I would argue that their taking of their own life is not a sin. Yes, I believe that accusing these people of sinning, especially if comparing those to physician assisted suicide, is ignorance.

That would only be true if there was logic in your statement. Like I said, if you want to discuss the social or political ramifications regarding persons afflicted with bipolar disorder, feel free to do so on another thread. I have no particular interest in that discussion.

 

My sentiments exactly, Jim!

I totally agree that artificially keeping one alive (via machines) may be as much evil as artificially hurrying up the process.

I think it would be on a case by case basis tho', no cut & dried solution.

 

You are the most dishonest person I have attempted to debate in a long time. First of all, you stated nothing of the above episodes until now, when you are forced to examine your words. Now you attempt to squirm out of it by these ridiculous examples. There is NOTHING valorous, or honorable in taking your life due to bipolar disorder. To say that it is, or compare it to acts that are, is the absolute hight of intellectual dishonesty.

I will debate this no further. I stand by my original statement. A spirit filled believer will obey Christ's commands to be of good cheer.

You are not worth talking to.

Pathetic.

Have a good day, Johnv.

 

In 100% agreement.

 

Amusing, given the fact that you stated you were refusing to answer my questions.

Which makes no difference to the concept that not all suicide is sin.

Never said otherwise. But it's funny how now you're changing your tune from "suicide is always wrong" to "it might be okay if the situation is honrable".

You haven't debated it at all. I've asked you question, which you refuse to answer. And then you get upset when that lack of an answer results in a presumtion, which turns out to be correct. And now, we find you changing your position anyway.

 

You've discussed people with bipolar disorder up to this point. Now that you are backed into a corner you refuse to discuss it.

I agree with Curtis. You are the most dishonest person on this board.

 

Only in regards to suicide, sin, and the OP topic.

Keep dreaming. To take my comments on bipolar disorder and infer any societal discussion out of it is an incredibly huge leap. You fail to make that leap, so your only way out is to say "you are backed into a corner". Nice try, but failed attempt.

At least we can see that the mob mentality is alive and well.

 

The law in Montana is about actively taking a life, not allowing someone to die.

There is a difference between allowing a dying person to die and euthanasia, which is actively killing, i.e., murder.

Killing these people are examples of euthanasia:
1. Someone who has a terminal illness but is still treateable and has over 6 months to live, maybe more.

2. Someone who is depressed and wants to die but is healthy or at least has no terminal illness.

3. Someone who is very ill but not terminal.

4. Someone who is in a coma or what is called a vegetative state (which is not a medical term, btw) but is not terminal


God has his own timing and purposes. To actively end someone's life who is not in the dying process or end stages of a terminal illness is murder.