More liberty gone - NSA has YOUR records

[Magnetic Poles]

I don't know what it will take for people to wake up to the fact that this administration is pure evil. Now it comes out that the NSA is attempting to collect call records on every call, domestic and international, and has been doing so since 9/11. What they have so far is the largest database ever assembled.

AT&T (SBC), Verizon, and BellSouth have handed over their customers call records. Only Qwest refused to do so, stating they were uneasy to do that without a warrant. Hooray for Qwest!

How much more intrusion on our liberty will we accept before we rise up and throw these evil, liberty-hating people out of office? Congress has no backbone, as this clearly falls into high crimes and misdemeanors. This bunch of crooks is not above the law, but rule like this is a dictatorship. We have let 19 evil terrorists become an excuse to gut our civil liberties.

Like the sticker says, "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention." May God save our nation!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12734870/

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

from Link above:
... but that the program “does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations.”

... The NSA has “access to records of billions of domestic calls,” USA Today said. Although customers’ names and addresses are not being handed over, “the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information,” it said.

First, the NSA can get this information without the cooperation of any phone company. The technology exists...

And, in most cases it is easily available without any mechanical connection (wiretap).

Secondly, the fact that I make legitimate calls to/from work is not a problem for me...

I supopose if I wanted to do something wrong, then, I wouldn't even want to use the phone...

I'd use a face to face meeting and hand passed notes...

So, in one sense the data collection is useless...

Except criminals aren't always that smart to begin with... And, often, under stress they forget to observe security...

So, if a number is on a watch list and a call is made to another number on a watch list an alert can be raised...

My chief concern is not protecting my information...

Because that is pretty much impossible to do in todays technological society...

If you think you have any privacy you're WRONG...

What really concerns me is the lack of recourse and protections for the misuse, abuse, and unlawful release of the collected data...

That's troubling...

As it is, irregardless of what USA Today says, the largest databases of personal information are held by Insurance Companies...

And, they hold their information with far less security than the NSA does...

Of course the loss of privacy that would really hurt all of us is our financial records...

Which are freely distributed among banks and credit bureaus and routinely lost track of...

Sorry MP...

This is kinda far down on my 'panic list'...

But, this 'bump' should raise it's visibility for a while longer...

SMM

 

[carpro]

I'm going to insist that my wife quit calling me at work to pick up a gallon of milk on the way home.

We'll have to work on developing some type of secret code. We just can't have anyone knowing about that trip to the store. If the fact gets out that we drink milk, it could cause all sorts of problems.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

SMM, you are right that electronic databases are everywhere. I believe they pose a serious problem, as well as the fact that many have been hacked and used for identity theft. Surveillance cams are at every intersection. The assumption of privacy is no longer true.

Still, this abuse of power can be used for any purpose. George Orwell got it right...just had it a few years too early. 1984=2006.

 

[here now]

Why should this concern people who have NOTHING to hide?

Who knows, maybe this will lead to lessening the risk of terrorist attacks.

Now, who objects to that?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Here Now, the reason is that is the excuse today. If they can break the law to supposedly find terrorists, you can be sure that they will find other uses for this database. I am not willing to give up freedom that was bought with the blood of patriots. Just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I want the government snooping around in my records, my house, my letters looking for something. Why not let the post office give your mail to the NSA too?

Ben Franklin said something to the effect that those who are willing to give up an essential liberty in exchange for security deserve neither liberty nor security. He was right then, and he is right today.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Here Now,

The problem isn't that the data exists...

Have you watched enough TV to know that data can be manipulated?

That data can be edited by removing context?

That innocent people have already been harmed by the partial release of records that 'seem' at first glance to convict them of wrong doing...

Even though they were totally innocent...

As I said earlier:

What really concerns me is the lack of recourse and protections for the misuse, abuse, and unlawful release of the collected data...

And, with the moral decay in our government.

It isn't like all the people watching your data are 1950's Eagle Scouts any more...

At least the NSA still has a modicum of security...

SMM

 

[Magnetic Poles]

SMM,

MP

 

[poncho]

Strange thing about all this is that while they are calling this a "terrorist surveillance program" instead of the warrantless domestic spying program it is their own federal and even some state training manuals are calling us the terrorists. I think most folks have either not seen these manuals, overlooked them or just refuse to put two and two together.

Our own government considers us to be more of a threat than illegal aliens or others. Look at the wide open borders and the fact that our government colludes with Mexico to rat out law abiding citizens like the Minutemen doing what the government flat out refuses to do. If this isn't the case then I'd like to know why they refer to property rights activists and people that mention the U.S. Constitution as being possible terror suspects, now they're even saying that if you wear Levi's travel in mixed groups with women and children have a good attitude and act nice towrds the police you are a terror suspect.

I've already posted the manuals here on BB more than once and get little or no reaction. But, I'm a nutcase because I actually read their documents and tell people here what they're saying.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

I am all for personal liberty, but I don't see where this is an issue. So the government can access the phone numbers of suspected criminals and cross check the numbers they called or called them. That seems like responsible use of security to protect our liberty. It does not mean your a criminal because you appear on the register, just a person of intrest they may want to check out. How can this harm law abiding citizens? Don't they do this kind of thing on CSI every night?

Its those milk drinkers like carpo we need to be worried about.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

NCT, I wonder if people thought the same thing when the SS was gathering info on Germans in the 1930s.

 

[Enoch]

Get over it Mag Pole…stop playing the victim.
What you should be concerned about is the fact the sensitive intelligence is being leaked to the public that compromises our national security. It makes me sick to see all the vultures and drama queens jumping on the victim of liberty bandwagon. Now our Government must waste more precious time and energy trying to calm the hullabaloo.

The White House President Bush Discusses NSA Surveillance Program

2:03 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: After September the 11th, I vowed to the American people that our government would do everything within the law to protect them against another terrorist attack. As part of this effort, I authorized the National Security Agency to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations. In other words, if al Qaeda or their associates are making calls into the United States or out of the United States, we want to know what they're saying.


President George W. Bush makes a brief statement to the nation Thursday, May 11, 2006, regarding the domestic surveillance program. Said the President, "Our most important job is to protect the American people from another attack, and we will do so within the laws of our country." White House photo by Eric Draper Today there are new claims about other ways we are tracking down al Qaeda to prevent attacks on America. I want to make some important points about what the government is doing and what the government is not doing.

First, our international activities strictly target al Qaeda and their known affiliates. Al Qaeda is our enemy, and we want to know their plans. Second, the government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval. Third, the intelligence activities I authorized are lawful and have been briefed to appropriate members of Congress, both Republican and Democrat. Fourth, the privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities.

We're not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans. Our efforts are focused on links to al Qaeda and their known affiliates. So far we've been very successful in preventing another attack on our soil.

As a general matter, every time sensitive intelligence is leaked, it hurts our ability to defeat this enemy. Our most important job is to protect the American people from another attack, and we will do so within the laws of our country.

Thank you.

END 12:05 P.M. EDT

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by Enoch:
Get over it Mag Pole…stop playing the victim.
What you should be concerned about is the fact the sensitive intelligence is being leaked to the public that compromises our national security. It makes me sick to see all the vultures and drama queens jumping on the victim of liberty bandwagon. Now our Government must waste more precious time and energy trying to calm the hullabaloo.

<Snip Bush Excuses>

Nobody's playing the victim here Enoch. I am concerned about the seizing of absolute power, and how it is corrupting absolutely. What is gathered in the name of the so-called "War on Terror" today, can be used for more malevolent purposes tomorrow. You obviously trust whatever Dubya tell you. I do not, as he has been caught making mistatements time and time again. No matter who, or what party is in power, I am vehemently against this type of domestic spying. We have become what we feared. The administration is acting with unauthorized police powers, much like the SS, KGB or Stasi.

There are legal ways for the government to collect intelligence. Secret, unwarranted spying on its citizens is not one of them. As long as they keep you afraid, you will condone anything. The terrorists did far more damage than knocking down some buildings...they gave our government the excuse to destroy over 200 years of freedom from these types of searches.

 

[Enoch]

Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Enoch:
Get over it Mag Pole…stop playing the victim.
What you should be concerned about is the fact the sensitive intelligence is being leaked to the public that compromises our national security. It makes me sick to see all the vultures and drama queens jumping on the victim of liberty bandwagon. Now our Government must waste more precious time and energy trying to calm the hullabaloo.

&lt;Snip The facts&gt;

The administration is acting with unauthorized police powers, much like the SS, KGB or Stasi.


</font>[/QUOTE]It’s really difficult to take you seriously when you make embellished statements such as the above.

There are legal ways for the government to collect intelligence.

You are correct and those techniques are being used presently.

 

[KenH]

Evidently the federal government now considers all U.S. citizens to be suspects.

The growing authoritarian nature of Leviathan led by the Demopublican Party is frightening to behold.

 

[jet11]

Originally posted by KenH:
Evidently the federal government now considers all U.S. citizens to be suspects.

Not true. They are keying on calls from known terrorists numbers (information gathered by intelligence agencies from seized computers, etc.). This garbage about spying on all US citizens is complete garbage and dishonest.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

um, I also heard that the alleged note passing method was breached to capture a old and running Mafia Godfather in CA, if that's good news to anyone

 

[jet11]

It was too late to add to my original post, so I will have to add my comments here.

I should add that they only have records of what number called what number. They only eavesdrop on those who are calling or are called by known terrorist numbers.

 

[KenH]

As I understand it, Leviathan collected the info on what phone numbers we called.

This is absolutely outrageous as Leviathan has no business prying into what phone numbers I dialed unless it suspects me of wrongdoing.

Therefore, it should be clear to everyone that Leviathan considers all U.S. citizens to be suspects.

It is time for a major revolution at the ballot box.

Wake up, my fellow Americans! Wake up!!!!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Jet, all my reasons for opposing this stand, despite your approval of the program. And they are keying on EVERY call. The database is to be every telephone call. From number, to number, time, duration, the whole enchilada. No one says they are listening to every call...but this is still a Big Brother intrusion. It is not the government's business who I call or receive calls from. It is as if all of us are being suspected of something.

This is unAmerican and wrong. The use of fear will cause people to permit anything apparently. I hope Congress jumps all over this, and apparently it may be happening.