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Nascar is back
- Thread starter ccrobinson
- Start date
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Umm, I think brining up his divorce would be a clear excuse. All the drivers have personal issues off the track, but that cannot come into play as a reason why they win or don't win.
Oh well, we disagree here again. When Jr. wins a championship maybe you see things differently. But I am sure there will be plenty of reasons for you and the Jr. haters to find reasons around that as well.
Umm, I think brining up his divorce would be a clear excuse. All the drivers have personal issues off the track, but that cannot come into play as a reason why they win or don't win.</font>[/QUOTE] Read again. I said it was an interesting parallel.
Maybe God just withdrew blessing from someone who made public professions then was probably at fault for the divorce.
If he earns one... we'll see.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Awesome. I don't have much of a problem with that.
I love it more when you don't claim objectivity, then try to claim that objective facts tell you something other than they tell me.
Yes he has. I don't believe Gordon is the best ever, but I'm going to give him his due as a great driver. He has won several races that he had no business winning.
Long and short of it is that no driver wins without good equipment. Like it or not, and this cuts both ways, you can't attribute all of a drivers wins to superior equipment and you can't discount all of the same driver wins because of superior equipment. Like it or not, nobody wins 16 times in Cup racing because they have a name and lesser ability.
You haven't seen me lump Jr. in with Stewart and Gordon. He's just not there. I certainly don't agree that he's a mediocre to poor driver.
Agreed. As I noted at least once before, 2006 will show us which year was the exception and which year was the rule.
Perhaps, but the point is that the #48 team should have lost 25 points right off the top because of what Cheater did.
Before you go on with the cheater stuff... It is pretty much a garage joke that CC's get away with as much as they can.
Exactly what Knauss did that was more egregious than anyone else... I haven't heard. Maybe they are just looking for someone to make an example of.
Exactly what Knauss did that was more egregious than anyone else... I haven't heard. Maybe they are just looking for someone to make an example of.
ccrobinson
Active Member
I have held this belief about Jeff's relative lack of success ever since he got divorced.
Before the divorce, when Gordon won so much, and he and Brooke were practically glued at the hip, he stated that having a strong marriage had such a positive impact on his on-track performance. Then, as he struggled in 2002, he claimed that the divorce wasn't hurting his on-track performance at all.
You can't have it both ways. If a strong marriage, and who knows how strong it really was, had a positive impact, then the divorce has surely had a negative impact.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Scott, any evidence yet as to why #8 has superior equipment?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Not to mention Budweiser who sponsors someone in anything you can race.
Are you questioning the fact that there is a difference between the haves and have-nots?
Also, there was a revealing little incident last year. Earnhardt was out of a race and two of his crewmen showed up in the 15 pit. Why? Because DEI put the "first team" on the 8... They were faster and better.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Sure they got $$, but a lot of the teams got $$.
Are you trying to tell me that Jr's team has more money available to it than Gordon's and others? I am sure Gordon and the other top guys have enough for anything they need or want.
If you got some real data on this, I will listen otherwise it is just opinion.
I am not sure what this proves. I have seen the same thing happen with Gordon and his teammates and others. Surely you don't think that Hendrick gives to Vickers and Bush the same way it does to Gordon and Johnson?
I would say Jr is about the same as Kennseth. I am sure the Cat in the Hat keeps Kennseth pretty happy. I don't know much about Kahne's team. Jr. probably does have advantage there.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Do you have the time to get out to thatsracin.com? I get much of my information from that site and jayski.com as well.
I'd be very surprised if anybody outside of the Nascar world finds this kind of data. Driver and sponsor contracts are very tightly held.
In Feb. 2003, as Jeff and Brooke Gordon were working out divorce terms, she wanted to know his net worth, both current and projected future. Jeff was dragging his feet on providing that, so she was going to subpoena all owners to turn over their driver and sponsor contracts. It caused a big uproar because nobody wanted to give that information up. Jeff is part owner of Hendrick, 5% I think, and he capitulated without the other owners giving contract information up.
Empirical data about sponsorships and such is sometimes very hard to come by in Nascar. It's very similar in that regard to the Nascar rulebook.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Reportedly, changing teams last year wasn't Junior's idea, it was Teresa's.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Nice try, but you're the one saying that Junior has the best equipment in Nascar, not me.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Are you sure about that?
In 2004, Mikey finished 20th in the points. He had 2 Top 5s and 9 Top 10s and led 192 laps.
In 2005, Mikey finished 25th in the points. He had 3 Top 5s and 7 Top 10s and led 175 laps.
It's hard to say that Michael performed better, partly because he got punted so many times by the likes of Jeff Green and Kasey Kahne.
Michael wouldn't stay for 2006 because he only wanted to work with Tony Eury Jr. DEI wouldn't guarantee that, so Michael left and took Napa with him.
In 2004, Mikey finished 20th in the points. He had 2 Top 5s and 9 Top 10s and led 192 laps.
In 2005, Mikey finished 25th in the points. He had 3 Top 5s and 7 Top 10s and led 175 laps.
It's hard to say that Michael performed better, partly because he got punted so many times by the likes of Jeff Green and Kasey Kahne.
Michael wouldn't stay for 2006 because he only wanted to work with Tony Eury Jr. DEI wouldn't guarantee that, so Michael left and took Napa with him.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Wow that is subjectivity at its finest
to see the objective evidence and still go in the other direction.
I got a question regarding the vigilante justice. Stewart has shared that he felt Kennseth was way out of line coming down on him in turn 2 and almost causing him to spin out. If vigilante justice is the way to handle things, then why was Stewart out of line in issuing Kennseth a little pay back when considering that Stewart felt that Kennseth put his run at risk by being way too aggressive for 20 laps into daytonna?
I got a question regarding the vigilante justice. Stewart has shared that he felt Kennseth was way out of line coming down on him in turn 2 and almost causing him to spin out. If vigilante justice is the way to handle things, then why was Stewart out of line in issuing Kennseth a little pay back when considering that Stewart felt that Kennseth put his run at risk by being way too aggressive for 20 laps into daytonna?