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Near Death Experiences

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Martin, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    I know an old lady in the Philippines who died three times.
    she was about 86 when this happened, a few months apart each incident.
    I was Branch Manager of a pest control company which her grandson owned.
    First time she died, we called for her grandson to come home.
    They laid her on a bed in the family home, and we waited for the grandson who had to fly in from Manila.
    this guy, my boss, is a vocal man.
    he likes to talk and joke, and because the grandma was already at "that" age anyway he wasn't too somber.
    Well, soon as he came into the room and boomed his voice, the old lady just got up and asked what in tarnation he was doing so far away from his family and when informed she "died" she replied, what do you mean I died.
    I was at the farm visiting the piggery and even spoke with our caretaker.
    The caretaker, at this point, was just outside the house, and when I spoke to her, she said, what do you mean gramma is dead, I was just talking to her.

    The next time she died, a few months later, before I was "promoted" with a transfer to Manila, we waited 24 hours before calling her grandson home.
    He came, went into the room, kissed his gradma.
    No reaction.
    So, we pulled out this sow she had been taking care of to butcher come town fiesta time.
    We wrestled it to the ground, tied the legs, hoisted it onto the butchering table, and they gave me the knife.
    Wanted to see if I had what it took.
    They held on to the snout, and I stuck the knife into the throat, and the sow screamed.
    We were draining the blood, probably a coupla minutes after the knife, when "whack" !
    something hit me at the back of the head, and there she was, with her trusty chinese bamboo whacker, what the devil are you doing with my sow ?
    Everybody ran out like they literally seen a ghost !
    The grandson came running in, and gently led her to the bed, and she said she was just "sleeping" and we stole her sow from her ? The nerve !

    Well, the third time she died, a few months later, they waited until she was really stiff, and rigor mortis started to settle in.

    She was really dead, this time.
     
  2. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==There is no explaining that. You had a very common NDE experience. Many, many, many people in the world have the same type of experience. In fact, I would argue that so many people have them that they cannot just be dismissed. On top of that, some of the details these people give about what was done to them when they were "dead" cannot be dismissed. The descriptions are just too accurate. That is not to say we must or should accept NDEs as gospel truth, we should not. However I think there is a level of apologetic good that can come from studying NDEs like yours.
     
  3. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    In what scripture do these report NEDs?
     
  4. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    scripture that says Paul died and came back to life?
     
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    No, it doesn't. Paul said that he didn't know if he was in the body or out of the body. (2 Cor. 12:2)
     
  6. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    I heard Dr. Adrian Rogers say once

    "Right now----every one of us are closer to death than we've ever been before!"

    While we can't refute all evidences of NDE's on printed page---I find (1) it ironic that the descriptions given by each "participant in NDE" recorded all more or less match up with each other---------IOW---a NDE record by someone in the United States fits the same description as the NDE recorded in another country halfway around the globe (2) no NDE record ever gives account of light leading to Hell---only bright light leading to a "glorious feeling" and (3) each NDE description more or less is the same---as is descriptions given of UFO sightings----the descriptions of space vehicles and creatures----the same descriptions whether Billy Bob in Georgia describes the UFO or some Oxford University professor over in England---both give more or less the same descriptions

    has anyone else noticed????

    As we would say in Alabama

    "Something ain't right in Denmark!!"
     
    #26 blackbird, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
  7. Peggy

    Peggy New Member

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    Just because something isn't mentioned specifically in Scripture does not mean it is not true.

    My father had a genuine NDE. He was a committed Christian when he had that experience and remains a committed Christian to this day.

    His experience was not a result of drugs. He was in church when it happened.

    I don't doubt his experience for a moment. He is not a man given to flights of fancy or attention-getting. It was not an occult experience; it was a genuine encounter with God.
     
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    That may be so, but as Bible-Believing Christians our only rule of faith and practice is the Bible, and if the Bible is silent about something, then we don't assume that to be assent.
    I've been given this line of reasoning also in the thread on whether the Bible is only for God's people or is it for all mankind.
    Bottom line is we are being extra-Scriptural.
    Suppose I said my church is directly descended from the Jerusalem church by virtue of certain documents which we found, would you trust those documents, or would you rather just stick to what the Bible says ?
     
  9. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    But no where does scripture say he was dead, or nearly dead or anything elses, means no where does scripture support NEDs.



    :thumbs:
    We see a lot of people adding expereince to the authority of scripture, no different then the charismatic movement.
     
    #29 donnA, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
  10. paul wassona

    paul wassona New Member

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    Every one of them, They all died and were brought right back to life. You said once a person dies they are dead. The bible proves different.
     
  11. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Well, whether near or permanent, we will all find out for ourselves given time. :laugh:
     
  12. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    whoa, whoa....let's put things in perspective here.
    everyone of them were brought back to life.
    There's a difference between being brought back to life, and coming back to life.

    None of them would have been brought back to life without the Spirit, and those events are pictures of a spiritual truth intended to be taught to believers, they picture, first, the resurrection of the Messiah, and the coming resurrection of all His people.


    FWIW
     
  13. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    The bible says Lazarus was dead, and NDE is NEAR death, not anywhere near the samething, a far far stretch you'd have to mangle scripture to get. You simply have no scripture supporting this.
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Nothing in the text indicates that Paul died; rather, it is treated more as a vision or at least, a very unique and special revelation/experience initiated by God. I think it is going beyond the text to say that Paul died.

    I agree. The problem with using this as an apologetic is that once you cross the line into using experience as a basis for truth, you're on a very bad trail with non-Christians, especially those into experiential belief systems.
     
  15. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    once we have accepted expereince as our authority we've already thrown out scripture as our authority, how can it ever be seen by us in the same light ever again as having ultimate authority. it can't.
    and we've seen this done on this thread by several, no longer accepting scripture as authority, but traded it for expereince.
     
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I'm apt to believe the ones who say they've been to hell, and to reject the pontification of those who say they've been to heaven.

    My brother in law made a confession of faith shortly after his near death experience. He believes he died and was in hell. I asked him what he saw. He said he was completely and utterly alone in complete and utter darkness.

    I believe he had a real experience. I can be convinced that he experienced an altered state of consciousness induced by the trauma he had suffered, but the Scriptures do not allow me to believe he actually died and descended into hell.
     
  17. TC

    TC Active Member
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    I do not put much stock into any NDE's - especially the ones that contradict the Bible.
     
    #37 TC, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2010
  18. paul wassona

    paul wassona New Member

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    Life apart from Jesus is a NDE. Those who have an NDE dream. I dream, you dream. Dreams are altered conceptions of reality effected by events and memories. God doesn't give new revelations by dreams but he does work through them and according to the bible. Death or near death is touching into a spiritual realm the living know very little about as this thread proves
     
  19. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    this thread proves some know very little about scripture.
     
  20. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Having taken a second look at 2Cor 12, I will probably have to give you that point. It does seem to have been a vision. However the possible historical context of this vision (Acts 14:19-20) may indicate that his vision occured when he was seriously injured. Could this be similar to some NDEs? I don't know.

    ==I am not talking about using experience as a basis for truth. All I am saying is that some of these experiences might totally disprove the materialist view of human consciousness. I don't think we can learn anything about heaven, hell, etc, from NDEs.
     
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