New KJV

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to make our beloved Saviour Jesus Christ to be a liar
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It doesn't make him out to be a liar. It just means you have to understand what each statement means IN CONTEXT. It's not that difficult....
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Why are you IGNORING the clear and plain ENGLISH DEFINITIONS of these two ENGLISH WORDS in the context and truth? This verse, in this modern version have MOST DEFINATELY and CLEARLY made Jesus Christ to be lying in his statement, in this verse! To deny this, is to deny the truth and FACTS as has been shown. Why are you remaining in ignorance concerning this, after all that has been shown? Are alterations like this, that make our Saviour to be a liar, really worth defending?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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It is beyond me how anyone with any understanding at all can say that the NKJV makes Jesus out a liar. You have proven again that your hatred for any translation except the KJV has caused you to see what is not there. The Greek says what it says and the translators of the NKJV were faithful to the text. Your personal feelings about what the text says and how it is properly translated is irrelevant. We don't chose the truth by feelings, the Truth is what has been given to us, and it is unchangable.

Bro Tony
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My hatred is toward those things that have altered and corrupted the words of the Lord. You have proven with your very own statements, that your loyalty is with the translators who have INACCURATELY translated the words of the Lord and have made Jesus Christ a liar, because of it. And you say you love the words of God and truth? Baloney! You have made is apparent that you love compromise.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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We don't chose the truth by feelings, the Truth is what has been given to us, and it is unchangable.

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To which, by your stance, loyalty to translators errors, and compromise of this error, show forth that YOU are the one that chooses the lie by feelings, rather than the TRUTH that is unchangeable. All because you fight against a false and man made label slapped onto the truth and do not have a full understanding of your own native tongue, or you are in denial of it for the above mentioned reasons.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

---------------------------------------------------That being the case let me ask you a question. When there is a difference between the Greek Text and what the KJV translators wrote down, which is correct? Is the Greek Text from which the translation came from more authoritative than the translation? I think these are important questions, could you please answer them, they would clarify alot.
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There is not a difference between the Greek text that the KJB it is translated from, for it reflects it perfectly in our own language. What is wrong is those today who have INTERPRETED the GREEK AND HEBREW wrong and based upon THIER OWN OPINIONS/UNDERSTANDING, that have been shown ARE WRONG AND CONTRARY TO THE TRUTH.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

This is not going to slip away michelle.

 

Actually, you are the one blinded by your ignorance of the context of the passage and your desire to tow the party line rather than simply admit that Askjo posted a spurious remark.

Where in John 8:12 -19 is there any mention of the Scriptures? There's not anything in the context to indicate that. This the light of the world pericope, and the Scriptures are not being referenced, as Jesus is in the treasury. Jesus is simply saying that He is not alone in His claims and judgments about Himself even if He is the only one who makes them. However, He goes on to say that He is not alone, because He is not alone, because in addition to His own testimony, the Father testifies with Him. He does not mention the Scriptures as the source of that testimony. He simply says in V. 26 that the Source of His testimony is the Father, because He never speaks anything of His own initiative, only that which the Father tells Him. Nothing in the context seems to indicate a reference to the Scriptures. It is YOU who read that into it by using the English definition of the word "record" over the Greek manuscript which is rendered "witness" or "testimony" most accurately.

Sorry, michelle, but you're the one that doesn't understand the passage. The passages in John 5, 8, and 12 that are being discussed mean exactly what I posted they meant.

Oh, and since I'm just fed up enough with you saying I don't understand the English language... You happen to be engaging someone that made a PERFECT score on the verbal section of the Graduate Record Exam and who has never made anything less than an A level in any course in the English language. I even have an honors degree in a writing intensive field. I have an EXTREMELY superior grasp of the English language in comparison to most people. Please do not insult my intelligence, it only serves to show how desperate you are.

 

You are all wasting your breath.

michelle has spoken (with tantrums no less).


HankD

 

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This is not going to slip away michelle.
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It is a documented FACT that some of the translators spoke fluent Greek and Hebrew, and preferred more often than not, spoke these languages, rather than their own. I might have stated it in the wrong way and here I will better explain - they knew these languages as well as their own. Are you happy now? Don't believe me? Just look up information concerning the translators. I am not going to do this for you however. I am done going to extra lengths to show you all things, that you outright reject, deny or excuse away. All to compromise with error and those who incorrectly INTERPRET these languages today that are CONTRARY TO THE TRUTH.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

^You're the one making the claim, michelle, and now you've said it is documented. Okay, fine, then show the documentation.

 

^You're the one making the claim, michelle, and now you've said it is documented. Okay, fine, then show the documentation.

 

It is a documented FACT that some of the translators spoke fluent Greek and Hebrew

Meaning "Michelle says so and you are showing a lack of faith to question her word."

 

Looking into my crystal ball --hmmm--- I predict.

Michelle will not back up her claim that the KJV translators knew Hebrew and Greek better than English."

 

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Where in John 8:12 -19 is there any mention of the Scriptures? There's not anything in the context to indicate that. This the light of the world pericope, and the Scriptures are not being referenced, as Jesus is in the treasury. Jesus is simply saying that He is not alone in His claims and judgments about Himself even if He is the only one who makes them. However, He goes on to say that He is not alone, because He is not alone, because in addition to His own testimony, the Father testifies with Him. He does not mention the Scriptures as the source of that testimony. He simply says in V. 26 that the Source of His testimony is the Father, because He never speaks anything of His own initiative, only that which the Father tells Him. Nothing in the context seems to indicate a reference to the Scriptures. It is YOU who read that into it by using the English definition of the word "record" over the Greek manuscript which is rendered "witness" or "testimony" most accurately.
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Just some advice to ya - scripture always defines itself. Take a look at:

Luke 24

24. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

..............

44. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46. And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48. And ye are witnesses of these things.


John 5

30. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32. There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33. Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34. But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35. He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36. But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41. I receive not honour from men.
42. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


John 8

1. Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4. They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6. This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20. These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21. Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22. Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23. And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30. As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49. Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54. Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55. Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Please READ AND UNDERSTAND IN CONTEXT AND TRUTH.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle,


If this is truly documented could you at least provide where the documentation can be found. I have searched and have failed to find it. If this is true I would consider it, but I cannot find evidence that it is true. At least provide where to find this evidence. The ONLY place I find even close is some of the KJVO material without documental proof.

I will consider any point of view if it is documented and the documentation proves to be of a valid and reliable source.

Regardless of whether or not they knew Greek better than a modern day scholar does not take away from the fact that the Greek contains a "single" word. To be most consistant and most honest the translators would and should stick with the same word in each place. If they do not, then obviously the word is synomymous.

I guess this all boils down to whether or not the translators knew something that was not in the Greek manuscripts? Then we come to modern day revelation. Are you willing to take that step?

Just trying to understand......Thank you!

 

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Michelle will not back up her claim that the KJV translators knew Hebrew and Greek better than English."
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I can see your tactic of trying to divert from the truth. What I have said concerning the translators I corrected in my last post, to which you are IGNORING, and then turning this thread into something outside of the topic and the POINT I was making. Typical.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

What does your copy and post of scripture have to do with the NKJV?

 

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Oh, and since I'm just fed up enough with you saying I don't understand the English language... You happen to be engaging someone that made a PERFECT score on the verbal section of the Graduate Record Exam and who has never made anything less than an A level in any course in the English language. I even have an honors degree in a writing intensive field. I have an EXTREMELY superior grasp of the English language in comparison to most people. Please do not insult my intelligence, it only serves to show how desperate you are.
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Nice ego and pride you are displaying, all at the expense of the truth regarding this topic. Because of this, am I to trust your WRONG INTERPRETATION of Greek which is determined by your OBVIOUS lack of UNDERSTANDING of plain English definitions of words? The definitions of these words have been given, and CLEARLY SHOW THAT THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, nor are they ACCURATELY translated/chosen in this verse in the NKJV according to not only their ENGLISH DEFINITION, but at the error/alteration of the TRUTH. You may be well educated and excell in the English language, but this in no way EXCUSES your IGNORING the PLAIN ENGLISH DEFINITIONS, to COMPROMISE WITH ERROR and ALTERATION OF TRUTH as indicated in CONTEXT and the REST OF SCRIPTURAL TRUTH.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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You are all wasting your breath.

michelle has spoken (with tantrums no less).

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It is funny how you can claim that I am having a tantrum, when indeed I am not. I am EMPHASIZING, not yelling. I just chose not to use the bold due to laziness. I have explained this to you before. Sometimes I forget to bold what I am emphasizing, and other times I just am plain lazy about it. The one thing I am NOT guilty of doing, is having a "tantrum".


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle,

The mind of Christ is humility.

This statement is an arrogant statement.



Can we please, please, please get back to the subject of this thread, which is to show that the NKJV doesn't follow the TR?

 

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What does your copy and post of scripture have to do with the NKJV?
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Have you not been reading the posts in this thread? Or are you having comprehension problems, or misunderstandings?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle