No One on this Board Supports Abortion

You raise a very important question which I have also raised and should be answered: Where did Obama get all the money he raised, reported in excess of 600 million, and some coming from foreign sources. Why does Obama get a pass on this?:BangHead:

I often think of the Scripture about Rachel weeping for her children when I think about abortion; almost daily. My wife used to work at a Crisis Pregnancy Center. She has received calls at 2-3:00 AM from young girls weeping for the child they aborted.:tear: :tear:

 

You face reality, mate!:BangHead: The woman had at least two choices: Before she got pregnant and before she killed her own child. The child she killed had none!:tear: And there certainly isn't anything to cheer about!

 

I'm against abortion except to save the life of the mother, but at the same time I think we need to concede that there are some women who have had little or no say about getting pregnant.

I know one woman who was raped and became pregnant. She decided to have the child and has raised him. He is now in his senior year in high school, trying to figure out which college scholarship to accept. :thumbs: However, not all women are as fortunate to have a strong support system like she did. Even though she was raped (she didn't advertise that very much because it was too painful to have on the table as a topic for discussion), she faced a lot of criticism and false rumors from church people because she became pregnant before she was married. If she had simply aborted the child, she would not have faced alienation from "God's" people.

In college, I also knew a frightening number of other young women who were raped when they were in high school, often on dates with "Christian" males. Most of those rapes were unreported because of "he said"-"she said" scenarios. Any of those situations could have ended up in pregnancies.

Then there are those young men and women who allow themselves to be overcome by their passions, as most of us know, is an easy trap to fall into. Often, they have no real means or maturity to bring a child into the world and face a stigma from self-righteous church people and other moralists (who seem more interested in condemning than curing sin). Instead of knowing they can go to the people of God for help, they take what purports to be an easier way and end their pregnancy.

Until Christians can truly become pro-life (not just anti-abortion), we are a major driving impetus for abortion. :BangHead:

 

What is being said in this thread is:

1. Abortion is wrong. (true)
2. Back alley abortions which are also wrong will happen if abortion is not allowed. (true)
3. Therefore, abortions should be allowed because that then makes it a rightful choice. (Can not be true, as two wrongs don’t makes a right) The reasoning above is clearly a fallacy of logic, simple and basic introductory informal logic.

Then there is the argument:

• We are not all following the same moral values.
• I fought for freedoms and that includes choice.
• Therefore, people should have the choice to follow there own values.

This is another fallacy of reasoning; a simple “groupthink fallacy”. “Substituting pride of membership in a group for reason and deliberation in arriving to a position on an issue.” Listed as one of the top ten fallacies of all time by the authors of Critical Thinking a college text for PHI 103, Intro to Logic. It goes on to say, “One obvious form of this fallacy includes national pride, or nationalism- a powerful and fierce emotion that can lead to blind endorsement of a country’s policies or practices. Example: “My country right or wrong.” This explicitly discourages critical thinking and encourages blind patriotism.

A man in my class said, “You Christians (rhetoric downplayer) want to impose your values and morals on other people in a free society.” My answer: Values and morals exist in any civil society. Are you opposed to a ban of polygamy? Are you opposed to sexual relations between a consenting child and an adult? How about adult brother and sister, father/daughter, mother/son? Where do these values and morality come from; they must come from a conscience, no? I suppose you don’t think it alright to vote your conscience? What IF the majority of people start to decide these things are OK, then does that make them OK values? Another question; If these things were ever allowed do you think we, as a society, ever could/should go back and impose them as immoral values on others in this country? THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED WITH ABORTION IN THIS COUNTRY!!! What is next! When will you put YOUR foot down?

Another person said, “I believe abortion is wrong, but I don’t think I should be able to tell other people that they can’t do it if they don’t want that child.” My reply: Do you think it is a life then? Yes, she does. Do you thing it is killing that life and it is murder? Yes, she does and would never do it. So you clearly believe it is wrong? Yes. Why do you believe that a mother should NOT be able to chop up her three year old with an ax if she doesn’t want it? What is the difference? Well… the unborn baby is part of her body. It doesn’t have the same DNA as she does; does it? No, but it is dependent on the mother to live. The three year old isn’t? How about a six month old? So the only difference is that it is IN her body and that makes killing/murder OK??? Don’t you think that is denying your conscience and giving into the mother who selfishly figures it isn’t convenient to let this life come into the world and therefore is OK to commit murder and your only support you’ve given for this argument is that you shouldn’t be able to impose your values or morals on others? Your conclusion is: Murder of an innocent child is OK for other people under certain conditions regardless of what you believe. You refuse to vote your conscience on this because of WHY??? When will you draw the line??? Honey, I believe you’ve been taught that to go against your conscience is the right thing to do politically. Who is the god over your conscience that you will listen to about how to vote?


(Jas 1:8) A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

(Jas 4:4) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

(Jas 4:7) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

(Jas 4:8) Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

We should then make all murder legal so long as it is done in a sterile setting and supervised by a doctor. In fact we should be able to hire a doctor to commit the murder for us.

 

Baptist Believer, that is the most logical presentation I have seen on the topic in a long time. Crngatulations.

Quote: I'm against abortion except to save the life of the mother...

One question. Does this include D&C's and other prebirth and post insemination invasive surgical actions? No hidden agenda,,just asking the question.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Buddy, you make a statement, then give three paragraphs of a lame scapegoat arguement giving reason for pro choice. Talk about double-minded! :BangHead:

 

To all those that have posted in this thread;

I agree with all those that did not support the pro-choice candidate. Those of you that have given support to the culture of death, by your vote, have for the past several months (if not for the last year) or more, continue to defend what is the result of sin. All of those that are on the side for life have begged and warned you not to support a candidate that was this involved in this hideous practice. You have not changed your mind nor turned your hearts from this ungodliness. Now the guilt of your support prompts you to start threads like this to make a last ditch effort to get the rest of us to compromise our stance for life. You can bring all the excuses you wish to assuage your conscience by even blaming Bush and the Republicans for not having not done enough.

Well is is not enough that you have set the gains of the pro-life movement back another generation or more by your vote?

Frankly I am weary for you. You are never going to repent of this until you realize it is too late. My hope is that I never grow weary in praying for this side of the Christian Community that yolk together with those that have an agenda for death and power. raying:

 

It is indeed sad from the experience your wife has had of women calling her and crying. What a evil world it has turned into. Television can be a good thing but again it has turned into so much trdegy. Our young is blasted with evil every day.

 

Do all those who outright fight against abortion also fight against stemcell research which had saved many a life, including those good people who so vehemently opposed all abortions?

Do you also fight against all D&C's which includes the abortion of a fetus in the beginning stages? This is almost a routine surgical procedure for women.

How many of you has provided a home and financial assistance for a young girl in peril? In the old days, if a girl got pregnant, she was hid in the back bedroom as a disgrace to the family.

How many young girls have you counselled, and by this I mean non-judgemental counselling?

How many of you also bellyached about welfare benefits for the girl who has her child and trys to raise it?

Cheers, I am done,

Jim

 

YES. Embryonic stem cells have not been shown to have the same effect as adult stem cells; in fact, the latest news story on this subject regards a woman who had her trachea replaced using her own adult stem cells.

You're darn tootin' I'll fight against embryonic stem cell research, when we have proven that there is no need for embryonic stem cells!

 

Yes, I do. Best I can find in my research, there have been about 300,000 births from in vitro fertilization since around 1981. That comes out to about 11,111 per year.

Compare that with approximately 100,000 children a year waiting to be adopted. That number could have been 89,000 if people would consider adoption, rather than a procedure that, at best, has a 59% chance of success.

 

That's funny; the Catholics were arguing to make it illegal, simply because of the number of embryos that were being discarded due to the success rate percentages.

 

So what is your point? I am pro life. Those who support the democrat party, the party of death, are pro abortion whether they admit it or not.

 

I oppose fetal stem cell research!

You are incorrect. All D&C's are not for abortion!

I have!

My wife has!

I have complained about people who are too lazy to work! I know young women who have children and with the support of their family are able to raise the child without welfare.

Cheers, I am done,

Jim[/QUOTE]

:thumbs: