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Featured Non-Christians in Heaven?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by canadyjd, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Shoostie

    Shoostie Active Member

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    How does circumcising your part make you elect? Do you also think getting wet in a baptismal makes you saved? It's a truism that only the elect are saved.
     
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  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    MB,
    According to Romans 8, who are God's elect?
    Who did Christ die for, and who does He sit at the right hand of God, making intercession for?

    Here is the answer:

    " And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the [will of] God.
    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
    34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. "
    ( Romans 8:27-34 ).

    So, according to the above passage:

    He that searches the hearts and knows what is the mind of the Spirit,
    He that makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God...
    He works all things together for good, to them that love God.
    Those that love God are the called according to His purpose.

    We then see that the context of "them that love God" and "them that are the called according to His purpose" is expanded upon...

    The ones that love God and are the called according to His purpose... are foreknown.
    The ones that love God, are the called according to his purpose and are foreknown... are predestinated conformed to the image of His Son ( "to be" is in italics and not part of the original text ).
    The ones that love God, are the ones that are called according to His purpose, are foreknown and are predestinated... are called.
    The ones that love God, are the ones that are called according to His purpose, are foreknown, are predestinated and are called... are justified.
    The ones that love God, are the ones that are called according to His purpose, are foreknown, are predestinated, are called and are justified...are glorified.

    That's not an "interpretation"...
    That is what the words actually say.


    Therefore:

    Who does He make intercession for?
    Who are the saints?
    Who are the ones that love God?
    Who are the called according to His purpose?
    Who are the foreknown?
    Who are the predestinated?
    Who are the called?
    Who are the justified?
    Who are the glorified?
    Who are the "us"?
    Who are the "us all"?
    Who are God's elect?

    They are one and the same.

    You don't see that when you read this passage?
    I do.
    I'm also sorry if you do not.

    But, I confess that it has taken many years for me to see this in my studies.


    I wish you well in your studies, and may God bless you greatly, sir.
     
    #62 Dave G, Mar 15, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    No, I do not.

    Salvation is only for those who have believed on Christ.
    There is no such thing as someone having eternal life outside of being in the body of Christ.

    " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. " ( John 14:6 ).

    " be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
    11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
    ( Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12 ).
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    This is not true nor does scripture say we have to be elect to be saved. All we have to do is accept Jesus Christ because all are drawn Jn 12:32
    MB
     
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    so I'm going to the end without reading most of the posts,,,

    where are the Primitive Baptist "no-hellers"?

    Actually no-heller is a misnomer. They believe in hell but they believe its not eternal.

    Those not accepting Christ in this life will be accepted of Him in the next, the entire human race is atoned.

    In the Hands of a Happy God

    e-WV | Primitive Baptists
     
  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    MB,
    Please see post # 62.
    According to John 6:44, all who are drawn will be raised up at the last day.
    So, if the "all" who are drawn in John 12:32 are "all men", then all men will be raised up at the last day when Christ comes again...the first resurrection.

    According to Revelation 20:1-6, there are two resurrections...the first is of the saints who will rule and reign with Him 1,000 years;
    The second is at the Judgment after the 1,000 years are finished.
    Revelation 20:6 tells us that the ones who take part in the first resurrection are blessed...

    So if all men are drawn in John 12:32, then all men will be raised up at the last day, per the language of John 6:44.
    That's universal salvation, MB.
    The Bible does not teach that, sir.

    I encourage you to look at it again.
    If you like, we can start another thread about it in the CvA section, if that will help.


    Again, May He bless you in your continued studies in His word.


    EDIT:
    Apologies to the OP for wandering off-topic.
    From here on out in this thread I will endeavor to confine further replies to the topic at-hand.
     
  7. Hannahande

    Hannahande Member

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    That is a mere hypothesis, nobody can tell who goes to heaven but Him.
     
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  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    God told us in scripture who goes to heaven and who does not and gives His criteria for each.

    peace to you
     
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  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    he led captive captivity

    ᾐχμαλώτευσεν αἰχμαλωσίαν
    vi Aor Act 3 Sg - n_ Acc Sg f

    IMHO He, singularly, began the captured of the, singular noun, death to be totally fulfilled at; So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. “O Death, where is your sting?[fn]
    O Hades, where is your victory?”[fn]

    He led captive, death.


    Has not a thing to do with OT saints.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All who receive Jesus as their Lord go to heaven, period!
     
  11. Ron Buchinski

    Ron Buchinski New Member

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  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh no its not. In fact its just the opposite. Only the saved are elect.
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Scripture please?
    MB
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him

    We must first be "in Him" to be elect.
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I don't really think you agree with me. See my previous post.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God chooses us to be found in Him first, then we ratify that!
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That is not what Ephesians 1:4 says
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    What would be the proof Paul was speaking to Gentiles. I don't see it here. Paul as far as I know didn't preach in theaters or out in the open like Christ did. He preached in synagogues. Since Gentiles didn't go to the temples Few Gentiles go there today.. How do you explain this verse is for the Gentiles
    MB
     
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