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Psalms 105:4
Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

1 Chronicles 22:19
Now set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God; arise therefore, and build ye the sanctuary of the LORD God, to bring the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and the holy vessels of God, into the house that is to be built to the name of the LORD

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

so you insist that the atonement is limited, that Christs death really doesnt save

 

Yea, I came out of that Roman Catholic belief system too......I call it "Christ Plus"........Honestly you need to change your name to Alive in Christ & Me & my Will ....then you could add (We are prefect together) :laugh:

 

yes...the whosoever wills ...are the elect sheep
the whosoever wonts are the goats who remain dead in adam and go into the second death.
To saith that calvinists do not follow thus saith the Lord...is lame

A hearty amen but it doesnt just have to be Calvinists who see the gospel that way....its anyone who believes in Gods capability to save anyone HE Chooses.....not I chose but He Chose.

 

Faith is not something you can give to another. Faith must come from within the person exercising it.

An analogy might demonstrate. Suppose a total stranger approaches you and asks to borrow your car. Would you loan them your car? I think most people would say no. Why? Because you know nothing about this person. You do not know if they can be trusted to return your car to you. Faith is a judgment based on knowledge.

Now suppose a family member or a good friend asks to borrow your car. Would you loan them your car? Most people would say yes. Why? Because you know these persons and know they love you. You know they would not steal your car but return it. Again, your faith is a judgment.

Can the stranger give you faith? Can your family member give you faith? Of course not, your faith comes from within yourself, based on your knowledge and experience with another person. You know you can trust a family member or friend, but you are not sure you can trust a total stranger.

Why do we have faith in Jesus? It is because of knowledge that the scriptures impart to us. We read of Jesus and his great love and compassion for the lost. We read of his miracles. We hear his words, which no other man could speak. The words of Jesus speak directly to our heart and conscience. A man recognizes they are truth.

As a person comes to know Jesus through the scriptures, he comes to realize that Jesus can be completely trusted, just as our knowledge and experience with a family member or a close friend teaches us they can be trusted. But faith is a judgment that comes from within us.

Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Unbelief is also a judgment. A person who does not believe God has judged him as a liar.

1 Jhn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

You cannot force or cause another person to trust you. You can be good to another person and show them love that persuades them you can be trusted, but you can never force them to trust you. Only the person exercising faith can determine who they trust and who they do not trust and why.

Faith is not something you can give to another. You can only persuade a person to trust you.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Abraham had faith in God because he was persuaded, not forced.

But note also that being imputed righteous follows believing. This is why no person can be regenerated until they first believe on Jesus. Until you believe, you are condemned as a sinner, you are dead in sins. But the moment we believe in Jesus, as that point we are imputed righteous and now have spiritual life. Faith precedes regeneration.

 

Nice verses but I still don't know what point you're trying to make.

 

You're correct. The only thing I would add to your statement is that once God gifts us the faith, we will use it to believe on Jesus.

 

All men have the God granted ability to seek HIM. Every human that has ever drawn breath has this granted ability, which is as "I believe" (I feel) is part of the imago dei.

 

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

Psalm 1:

1 Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers,
2 but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,
and who meditates on his law day and night.
3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
whatever they do prospers.

Jeremiah 17 :
7 “But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord,
whose confidence is in him.
8 They will be like a tree planted by the water
that sends out its roots by the stream.
It does not fear when heat comes;
its leaves are always green.
It has no worries in a year of drought
and never fails to bear fruit.”

9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

1 Corinthians 3 :
5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.


Who said our heart is cured and our way is the righteous path and our heart isn't deceiving you who might believe you are the elect and can't be deceived.

There is nothing wrong with working with God in our salvation and the salvation of others, as long as we know we are nothing and Christ is everything. God isn't going to condemn us for working with Him.

If I does nothing not even acknowledge what God has done how can you know they are saved by grace?

Goats and sheep is a hyperbole meant as a lesson for us. I have learned from it that it has to be an attitude, because no one is physically none of those animals, but we know what each do. A goat is stubborn, leads, don't have to depend on others, a sheep follows others because it doesn't know how to take care of itself

An escape goat ,a judas goat, used to be used to lead sheep not Jesus sheep of course but sheep to destruction while saving itself, I think they are false teacher who lead sheep to destruction not Christ. In a hyperbole I would be a dog who begged at the masters table that He included me with His sheep when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed sealed me with the promised Holy Spirit and now treats me as one of His own. To the day Jesus said good and faithful servant I will not trust my own understanding but the Sheppard Jesus Christ.

 

So, how do you reconcile John 14:17; Rom. 3:10; Rom. 8:7; 1 Cor. 1:18; and 2:14?

How do you explain what Paul writes in Ephesians 2 when he tells the Ephesians that in their prior spiritual condition they were dead? How do you explain that in verses 4-5 Paul writes:

Ephesians 2:4-5 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

We don't read "But man", we read "But God". It is God who makes the dead sinner alive and then able to believe. Yes! Every sinner that comes to faith in Christ must choose to do so. But they can't choose while dead in sin. Dead bodies don't have the ability to do anything except remain dead. The same with a spiritually dead person. Rom. 8:7 and 1 Cor. 2:14 both support the total inability of the sinner to come to God without God's intervention. Once God does intervene, then yes, the sinner exercises faith and comes to God, and he comes to God freely.

Every time a person on this board posts verses about "whosoever" they think they've made a slam dunk against the doctrines of grace. They think they've shown those who believe in the doctrines of grace that man chooses freely, a refutation of election. They seriously misunderstand both the scriptures and the doctrines of grace. Man does choose freely, and all men are called upon to choose Christ. The bible even says that God is declaring to men that all people everywhere are to repent (Acts 17:30). But left to their own devices no one will ever choose God (Rom. 3:10). No one will ever repent. God acts first (Eph. 2:4) and then man believes.

 

Gotta get that cheap shot of questioning someone's salvation...at least you made it past page 2!

 

I never mentioned nor attempted to mention any slam dunk against you or anybody.

 

Forgive me. I sometimes get carried away into hyperbole. There's a frustration with some poster's on this board and it's easy for me to transfer that over to others who share a similar theology.

Hopefully I'll be less prone to do that since I've found a way of tuning out the drones. You're not one of them btw.

 

Thank you and blessings to you!

I don't know your "position", I am not of the "reformed" view, but I am not a "hater".
I perceive that you must not be either.

 

Thomas15....

GOOD FOR YOU! Excellant.

Althogh my dobro playing is what came up in the conversation, my primary instrument is the Banjo. And the banjo..as well as other old time instruments like dulcimer, autoharp, mandolin and fiddle etc can be extremely effective instruments for any spiritual situations. Keep it up!
__________________

 

My position is Reformed. I did not start out that way. I was raised Roman Catholic. Just before high school graduation I made a profession of faith in an Assembly of God church. I bounced around in my theology for many years after that until I joined a conservative Baptist church in northern New Jersey. About ten years ago I was exposed to the doctrines of grace. I responded violently against them. Eventually (I believe) the Holy Spirit prevailed upon my heart to study the scriptures on the subject. So, nearly 7 years ago, I became convinced that the doctrines of grace were biblical. Once one domino falls the rest go right along with it. I went from accepting the doctrines of grace to embracing Reformed theology (minus paedobaptism and Presbyterian ecclesiology).

Hater? Definitely not. My Sicilian bloodline does get a bit frustrated at times. The only hatred I desire to have is directed at sin.

Blessings to you.