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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jun 20, 2012.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    His God is the same as yours. The fact you question a god he believes in and describes is just what I claimed. Your entire thread is nothing more than a cheap shot.
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Which translation has Genesis 9:6 pre fall?
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    He is not describing the biblical God,regardless of who his God is. I asked him what verses he thought suggest this. Did you follow the posts?

    The majority of your posts are drive by cheap shots. The thread is valid because day after day, post after post , the same errors are offered.
    No correction is welcomed. You have nothing to offer here. You just look to accuse evidently. You can do what you want, as i can.

    When cals are told that they teach fairy tales, and falsehoods, lies, etc. i do not see you jumping in and offering what you offer here. Until you do that why should i listen to you at all? You try and sound like you are so objective and yet your posts do not reflect it. You are about as objective as my friend benjamin:wavey:
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Every translation has it that way, because of Gen 1:31. Before the fall man was not under the curse of sin and death...
    The Image bearer teaching was already in place pre-fall.
    Capital punishment is instituted based on this.

    3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

    6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
    7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

    In new birth we are a new creation 2cor 5:17......the Image has to be made new by God's supernatural work.

    After the fall...man is said to be in the image of adam.....but from the beginning it was not so;
    And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image

    We must be made like unto the second Adam:
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
     
    #104 Iconoclast, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  5. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Iconoclast...

    Thats just about the kind of response I was expecting

    So...all the scriptures I gave you are to be ignored because, of course...some of the were from the OT.

    It stuns the mind.

    So, I suppose you have ripped your old testament scriptures out of your bible because they are irrelavent ? No? Of course not

    Again. You amaze me.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    AIC....you are giving me stress! i did not say the passages were not valid. The passages you used were spoken to a people who were already under the Old Covenant.
    They were not being invited to get saved. they were being exhorted to remain under the terms of the Covenant as they vowed they would.
    See here!
    AIC....do you see what I mean now???

    remember the blessings and cursings DEUT28. obedience brings blessing
    lack of obedience brings the cursing and death.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    AIC,
    All scripture is given by God;
    4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

    6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Romans 15 is speaking primarily of the Ot...plus i am sure you enjoy how the 1689 confession describes God's word-
    Chapter 1: Of the Holy Scriptures
    1._____ The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
    ( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1-3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )
    2._____Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:

    OF THE OLD TESTAMENT: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Solomen, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations,Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

    OF THE NEW TESTAMENT: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistle to the Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation

    All of which are given by the inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life.
    ( 2 Timothy 3:16)

    3._____ The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon or rule of the Scripture, and, therefore, are of no authority to the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of than other human writings.
    ( Luke 24:27, 44; Romans 3:2 )

    4._____ The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God.
    ( 2 Peter 1:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 John 5:9 )

    5._____We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church of God to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scriptures; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, and the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, and many other incomparable excellencies, and entire perfections thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.
    ( John 16:13,14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-12; 1 John 2:20, 27)

    6._____The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word, and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.
    ( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Galatians 1:8,9; John 6:45; 1 Corinthians 2:9-12; 1 Corinthians 11:13, 14; 1 Corinthians 14:26,40)

    7._____All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of ordinary means, may attain to a sufficient understanding of them.
    ( 2 Peter 3:16; Psalms 19:7; Psalms 119:130)

    8._____The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic; so as in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal to them. But because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have a right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded in the fear of God to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner, and through patience and comfort of the Scriptures may have hope.
    ( Romans 3:2; Isaiah 8:20; Acts 15:15; John 5:39; 1 Corinthians 14:6, 9, 11, 12, 24, 28; Colossians 3:16 )

    9._____The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly.
    ( 2 Peter 1:20, 21; Acts 15:15, 16)

    10.____The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved.
    ( Matthew 22:29, 31, 32; Ephesians 2:20; Acts 28:23)
     
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    John 6 :
    45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me...54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day...66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

    67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

    68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

    Following a crowd does not mean you have eternal life.

    We been teaching this stuff for 2000 years we can't be wrong, so the Jews have been teaching what they have a lot longer and they were shown they were wrong by God Himself and there was those who refused to believe.

    Is it so hard for men who wrote a book that is loved by millions to recant and say they can be wrong it can mean something totally different or does pride get in the way?
     
    #108 psalms109:31, Jun 23, 2012
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  9. TC

    TC Active Member
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  10. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    So are you "functionalist" in regards to this imago dei?

    http://www.nobts.edu/faculty/itor/lemkesw/personal/PersonhoodETSpaper.pdf
     
    #110 quantumfaith, Jun 23, 2012
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  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Genesis 9:6 was post fall, soundly refuting your notion man is only made in God's image pre fall. Next.
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Yes, and yet another low blow here. You have no shame.

    pot or kettle?
    only in your head.
    you are a classic cyber bully and troll hiding behind a computer.

    someone who admittedly only will read the work of reformers calling someone out on objectiviity. You are a riot.

    And fyi...just because you don't see me calling out my own for equally low blows such as you provide does not mean I don't and haven't. Ask Van. You may believe yourself to be omniscient, but I can assure you that you are not.
     
  13. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Oh, it's said much later than in Noah's day;

    Jam 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

    Calvinists will be offended, but their view of Total Depravity is a very fulfillment of this scripture.
     
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Yes man was made in God's image pre fall. He was created good, pre fall. Surely you don't think we bear the full image of God post fall?
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Interesting question Amy....considering who you posted it to. It would not surprise me at all if he answered "Yes" ....so hopefully he wont dismiss this one. Personally I hope & pray that I am wrong big time.
     
  16. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Amy, don't think WD is saying that, if I have read correctly he is countering that Icon's position is that the "image" is completely gone after the fall. WD, myself and many others do not think that to be the case.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    No one is saying the image is completely gone QF.
     
  18. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    What exactly does it mean to be made in the image of God? The word "image" has overtones of "likeness" or "similar." In what way is man similar to God? Man is similar to God in that he is a moral creature. Man certainly doesn't share any of God's divine attributes. Even our moral likeness is imperfect. Finite. Mankind still possess the same moral similarity, although it is mortally wounded by sin. Our morality cannot be repaired, it needs to be remade; and that's exactly what Christ does for all who believe.
     
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Exactly..............
     
  20. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Seconded....on every level. :thumbs:
    I love this priceless quote:
    What a gem!!!....On a debate board, wherein it might be assumed that there would be disagreement, Icon thinks that everyone on here awaits his Divine "Correction", and when anyone disagrees, then they are "refusing" to accept Scriptural instruction and reproof. (Note to Cals...they don't "refuse" to accept...they just think your arguments suck.) All this from a poster who is little more than a parrot of all that his overlords have horse-whipped him into repeating ad nauseum.

    Personally, I have asked him numerous times to consider some of the ideas and arguments of those not of his ilk....(even on ideas not at all germaine to the debate of "Cal vs. Arm")....Soteriologically neutral ones... and he will admit that he simply refuses to read them, learn from them, or call them anything less than blasphemers. He calls C.S. Lewis a blasphemer, for crying out loud....whatever Lewis was...a "Blasphemer" is not it. Yet nothing but scorn comes from the creature with no unique thoughts of his own...just derision and insult. It is un-Christlike garbage.

    Since joining this Board myself... I have never heard as many proponents of the Calvinist point of view, I have never heard as much pro-Calvinist argument....and it has made me more non-Calvinist than I ever was before...whatever they are arguing...I don't want to think like they do, and I decidedly never want to emulate their Theological discourse. I simply do not want to worship the Moral Monster they worship. And I never want to emulate the vicious and un-loving messengers of their god.
     
    #120 HeirofSalvation, Jun 23, 2012
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