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Old Regular Baptist

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Frogman, Apr 13, 2004.

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  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I wouldn't doubt if we don't have a church that practices using olive oil but if they do we don't know for sure. I never seen oil used either. I have heard of it but never seen it.
     
  2. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    The larger an association is, the more viewpoints it will have. I've not heard any freewill doctrine preached among the ORB. I'm sure there is some out there. I visited Brother Dallas Ramsey (a very sweet and humble brother) last month at the Ashcamp Church. I should have asked him about that. I may give him a call.
     
    #562 Virginia ORB, Jan 15, 2007
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  3. old regular

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    We have Old Regular Baptist that range from Absolute Predestination of all things to all but one point of Arminism. I use to preach there in Va. I heard a lot of Brothers advocate that salvation was up to you, whenever you make up your mind, you can turn around when you want to.I also heard brothers preach that you can't come to Christ by nature the Father has to draw you.This would occur in the same meeting.I have gotten up several times and made the statement that they could go to heaven if they want to as long as the want to came from there, both sides would have that, because John the Baptist answered and said ,A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.A close look @ the Northern New Salems circular letter 1995 ,will prove freewillism is alive on the other side read careful Paris Tackett's in which he states ''Predestination takes form many ways.If any man preaches that God forseen whether we would believe or not believe then pray tell me where is the choice that we are to make.One of the principles of the doctrine of Jesus Christ is that man is a free moral agent....'' that statement is hyper-arminisim and robs God of one of his attributes,denys the doctrine of original sin, accuses God of being in heaven playing guessing games waiting to see what these free moral agents are going to do about him, It denys the articles of Faith of the Regular Baptist ,this was read the day after Mt.Zion asked the NNS to reprint historical orders on Arminian doctrine and they stated that was the Old brothers that they were the new Regular Baptist I could also show you things written in the Union and some of the others that will prove this point,and we could spend hours going over how man satisfies the wrath of God ,never rebuked in the association in any form, letters printed with in it, but if you advocate that God knows all, you are a hardshell and need to be dealt with, my God is the God of the Bible and knows all ,their God that doesn't I do not know him. Northern New Salem was the worse association to advocate heresy,Sardis was better balanced, Philadelphia did not go to extremes when Bro.Clifford Colley was alive, New Salem was always in a power struggle so doctrine could turn either direction.Brother Keith pick up some of the minutes I am talking about you will be shocked at what some so called Regular Baptist pass as being truth then exclude those who believe in free grace. Brother Mike Slone
     
    #563 old regular, Jan 16, 2007
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  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    God knows all things and is outside of time and don't have to look down through time. He looks and He sees who believes and who does not. But because He sees who will believe does not mean He decrees it to happen that way. He gave man a "choice" and God sees what that choice is, but does not make the choice for us or decree it to happen that way. After seeing the choice we make then we are predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son in other words all believers will be "Christ like".
     
  5. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Brother Mike, in my opinion I would say two, sometimes three points of Calvinism gets preached in ORB churches in my area: Total depravity, Perseverance of the Saints, and some form of Unconditional election. Most of the Arminianism doctrine gets preached except for Salvation can be lost, which is not the Freewill doctrine I spoke about. Most ORB churches believe in a general atonement. I do agree with you that the gulf in doctrine between Old Regulars of the 1890's and Old Regulars of the Present has widened and leans more toward Arminianism now.
    Brother Keith
     
  6. Virginia ORB

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    Articles of Faith
    Articles of Faith of the John Thomas Association of Freewill Baptists of which Splashdam FWBC is a member:

    1. We believe that there is but one living, true and eternal God the Fatber, of whom all things from everlasting to everlasting glorious and immutable in. all His attributes.-I Cor. 8:6; lsa. 40:28.

    2. We believe that there is one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom all things, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, who God freely sent into this world, because of the great love wherewith He loved the world: and Christ as freely gave Himself a ransom for all, tasting death for every man: who, was buried and rose again the third day, and ascended into Heaven, from whence we look for him the second time in the clouds of heaven at the last Day to judge both the quick and the dead.- I Tim. 2:5,6; Heb. 2:9; John 3: 16; Rev. 1: 17; Acts 24:15; 1 John 2:2.

    3. We believe that there is one Holy Ghost, the precious gift of the Father through his dear Son, unto the World, who quickeneth and draweth sinners home to God.- John 16:7, Acts 2:2; Eph. 2: 1, Epli 4:4-6.

    4. We believe in the beginning God made man upright, and placed him in a state of glory without the least mixture of misery, from which he voluntarily by transgression fell, and by means brought on himself a miserable and moral state subject to death.- Gen-2:l7; 3:19.

    5. We believe that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and the knowledge of truth, that they might be saved; for which end Christ hath commended the Gospel to be preached among all nations and to every creature.-Mark 16: 15; Luke 24:47; John 3: 15- 17; Tim. 2:4.

    6. We believe that no man shall suffer in hell for want of a Christ who died for him, but as the Scripture has said for denying the Lord that brought them; because they believed not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Unbelief, therefore, being the cause why the just and the righteous God of Heaven will condemn the children of men, it follows against all argument that all men, at one time or another are found in such capacity as that through the grace of God they may be eternally saved.- Acts 17:30; Mark 6:6; Heb. 3: 10; I John 5: 1 -10.

    7. We believe that all people reaching the years of accountability must be born again. Then by trusting His promise and keeping His commandments until the end of life, we shall be saved.- II Tim. 4:7; John 3:3.

    8. We believe the whole Scriptures are infallibly true and that they are the only rules of faith and practice. 11 Tim. 3: 16, 17.

    9. We believe in the doctrine of General provision made of God in Christ, for the benefit of all mankind, who repent and believe in the gospel. - Luke 14:16-20; Matt. 28:19,20; Luke 13:3,5; Acts 3:19; Mark 1: 15.

    10. We believe that sinners drawn to God the Father of the Holy Ghost, through Christ His Son and that the Holy Ghost offers His divine aid to all the human family-, so as they might be happy; would they give place to His divine; whereas, such who do not receive the divine impressive of His Spirit, shall at a future day, own their condemnation just and charge themselves with their own damnation, for willfully rejecting the offers of sovereign grace. - Matt. 11: 17, John 6:6-45,65; Ps. 1: 1; Tit. 2:11,12.

    11. We believe that men, not considered simply as men, but ungodly men, were of old ordained to condemnation, considered such who turn the grace of God into them, and therefore, shall bring upon themselves swift destruction; but we observe that they, and such the Apostle saith because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved, therefore, the indignation and wrath of God is upon every soul of man that doeth evil, living and dying therein; for there is no respect of persons with God. - Jude 1: 4; II Peter 2: I,ll Thess. 2:1 1, Rom. 2:10-21.

    12. We believe that all children dying in infancy, having not actually transgressed against the law of God, in their own persons, are only subject to the first death, which was brought on them by the fall of the first Adam, and that none of them dying in that state shall suffer punishment in hell by the guilt of Adam's sin for "of such is the kingdom of God." - I Cor. 15:22; Matt. 18: 2-5; Mark 9: 36-37; Matt. 19:14.

    13. We believe that good works are the fruits of saving faith and that in the use of the means of grace and not out of the use of those means, eternal life is promised to men. Rev. 22:14,15. Isa. 1:19,20; Matt 7:8; Jer. 6:16.

    14. We believe that no man has any warrant in the Holy Scriptures for justification before God through his own works, power or ability, which he has in and of himself, only as he by grace is made able to come to God through Jesus Christ; believing the righteousness of Jesus Christ to be imputed to all believers for their eternal acceptance with God.- Rom. 4:24; Acts 8:20, 2 1; Eph.2:8-9.

    15. We believe that all things are foreseen in the wisdom of God, so that God knoweth whatsoever can or cannot come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet not as having decreed any person to everlasting life, out of respect of mere choice further that He hath appointed the godly unto life, and the ungodly, who die in sin, unto death.-Heb. 4:13; Provo 8:22-3 1; Matt. 25:31-46.

    16. We believe as teaching Gospel ordinances, in believer's baptism, laying on of hands, receiving of the sacrament in bread and the fruit of the vine, washing the saints' feet, anointing the sick with oil in the name of the Lord, fasting, prayer, singing praise of God and the public ministry of the Word, with every institution of the Lord we shall find in the New Testament.- Mark: 15-16; Acts 8: 17; Acts 19:6; Luke 22: 19.20; John 13:5-7; James 5: 14; Eph. 2:8,9.

    17. We believe the Gospel mode of baptism is by immersion, and that believers are the only subjects
    for baptism. -Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:9, 10; Acts 2:38,39; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12.

    18. We believe in a general resurrection of the dead and a final judgment at the last day.-John 5:28,29; II Cor. 5: 10.

    19. We believe the happiness of the righteous is eternal and the torments of the wicked are endless.- Matt. 25:46.

    20. Freewill Baptists understand the Bible teaches the following fact: on the Day of Pentecost believers spoke in distinct foreign languages which were readily understood by the nationalities present.- Acts 2:4,8,1 1.

    Tongues were given as a special gift to the early church as only one sign which confirms the witness of the Gospel to believers. 1 Cor. 14: 140; Heb. 2:4. While tongues were bestowed by the sovereign will of God on some believers, all did not speak with tongues. 1 Cor. 12: 10,30. When this gift was abused, it became a source of disturbance in the congregational meetings. To eliminate confusion and correct the error, Paul set aside particular guidelines for the Christian church to follow. (I Cor. 14:18,19,23,33). The gift of tongues was neither an evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, nor does it bring bout sanctification. 1 Cor. 12:13. We believe that speaking in tongues as a visible sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is an erroneous doctrine to be rejected. Any implication of a 'second work of grace" has never been tolerated in our fellowship of churches, and will not be attended. We teach and preach the fullness of the Holy Spirit and heed the scriptural admonition, "Be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Eph. 5:8-20.

    GAMBLING:
    We not wishing to conform to the practice of gambling pledge to abstain from the sale or use of all devices constructed for the purpose of gambling- a lottery, games of chance, or any numbered system for which there are odds given for gain or loss, whether it be associated with a person, place, or thing, spoken or unspoken. - Col.3:5; 11 Peter 2:3; Ez. 33:3 1; Eph. 5:3; 1 Cor. 6:19; Rom. 1:28- 29; l Tim. 6: 10; Prov.28:l6.

    Reference:
    Minutes of the 79th session of the John Thomas Association of Freewill Baptists. September 7-8, 2001.
     
  7. old regular

    old regular Member

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    True Old Regular Baptist are neither Calvinist nor Arminian, they can be calvinistic as their Articles of faith are.They are not to be Fatalistic or Arminian, there were some truths and some lies and misrepensentations made in the Union to the actual doctrine of the Bold Camp Church, I knew men from both sides, and they all agree this was so.I have never found any document that would prove that Bethel ever preached they believed in regeneration before the world began, this was a lie to which they were not permitted to address.As to someone repenting before they did, I only can speak for myself,The Spirit had to bring me down through a Godly Sorrow, and that was something I could not produce on my own. John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;and him that cometh to me I will no wise cast out.'' 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.44No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will rasie him up at the last day.45 It is written in the prophets,And they shall be all taught of God.Every man therefore that hath heard,and hath learned of the Father,cometh unto me. John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit,..........'' Brother Slone
     
  8. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Brother Mike, all I know right now about the Bethel split is what I've read from the Union minutes, so I need to do some more digging on it. On another note, do you have any information on the Mt. Ararat Church? The 1974 Union minutes states that the church obtained a letter of dissmission from the Northern New Salem Association. I would be grateful for any help.
    Brother Keith
     
  9. old regular

    old regular Member

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    Mt Ararat Church

    Mt. Ararat Church came from a different group of Regular Baptist, older than the New Salem cluster, it was located in Galax ,Va. Brother Baxter Osborne helped them get in the Northern New Salem then latter on they were dismissed, to go to the Union Association, they may have carried the term Primitive in their title at one point ,so I was told, by some older brothers . Roy Caudill helped them some in the early NNS years.They were with the Union, and had declined some they sent no delegates to the Union in 2003 or at least they were not known. Brother Mike Slone
     
  10. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Thanks, Brother Mike. Mt. Ararat Church is still in the Union. The New Hope Church in NC dissovled last year. I wonder if the Mt. Ararat Church came from the Mountian Union Regular Baptist Association.
     
  11. old regular

    old regular Member

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    Believing A work

    I understand that belief is a work of God,man has nothing to boast about he believes through Grace Acts 18:27[ because his election is of Grace Romans 11:5 ] therefore it is not a work of man.God is omniscient anyone not believing that would not be orthodox Acts 15:18 "KNOWN UNTO GOD ARE ALL HIS WORKS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD'' '' Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;... Psalms 139: 6 God knows. "He knoweth what is in the darkness" Dan 2:22 He knew back then, he knows now,"Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight:but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do" Heb 4:13 He knows our thoughts Ezek 11:5{even before they come in our mind} so says the prophets of old.His understanding is infinite Psalms 147:5 look at Jer 1:5 we could go on and on! for any man to try to rob God of one of his attributes and for an association to print such trash is abominble! That was my wake up call concerning the NNS.The ancient Regular Baptist would have excluded a man for advocating such, also the ideal that election is this ,that God cast a vote for you, the devil cast a vote against you and you cast the deciding vote, to make such a statement is to put Satan as a member of the God head and is blasphemy. I will not fellowship such things now nor ever if I have my right mind, My God is too precious to me,to be treated like that among those who claim to be his children.Man is sovereign but God is not? I would rather be called a hardshell and be true to the Bible than be esteemed highly among a group that would try to change God into fallible creature like man.Yet these people would fight and try to destroy churches for preaching free Grace or saying God knows them that are his.I may die outside that cluster but I am not homesick for my loved one to hear any of that, and they have plenty of it. Election by Grace is not the cause of decline among them, the fall away is, and it has been brought on by men and women not living by the Bible, the same for all the rest, while our correspondence has not left the doctrine, many churches have left the practice, but I do see some change among some in this, for that I am thankful.I am not opposed to trying to work on some issues with the other factions but they must put a stop to unorthodox preaching,I can and have worked with rational brothers, who may differ on points with me, but I can not work with people who say our God just doesn't know everything about his own works.They need to review their historical statements and boundries set concerning doctrine, I live and preach by them now.They need to come to agreement themselves about practice, it seems to change all the time, God does not change like that one year it is a sin, next year it is not.I feel the Indian Bottom has many gifted men among them, they have kept Regular Baptist singing but they do not keep the order they once did, their modifications have left to broad a road to travel ,while they have able leaders Bro.Elwood seems to be good at keeping peace,and I think he stands for more of the old time way in practice.The men with more than one living wife preaching issue is a very old one and some of those who threw the rocks had been doing the same thing for several years themselves.Note: I am not saying this because we have the same ,we do not, none of our churches ever used them knowingly, but they fellowshiped all those years under those conditions and then it became an offense, yes they did have sisters that cut their hair and wore make-up too excessive but the others needed to clean their house first. I am not afraid to speak my mind ,as far as I know they are not interested in correspondence with us nor is the other cluster.I do think we all could get together again and work on some of our issues and develop working relationships until full correspondence could be granted, but I will not go against the God of the Bible for the sake of peace. Elder Michael Slone
     
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Grace "through faith". You remove the faith and you have no Grace.
     
  13. Brother Jeremy Slone

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    If you remove the Grace you have nothing to bring "through faith". Romans4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; ....
    John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

    Romans 11:36 For of him Grace and through him, Faith and to him Grace are all things:.....

    this is how I see it brother Bob.
     
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I didn't remove Grace, just show it takes faith to get the Grace.

    By Grace are ye saved "through faith".

    Without faith, you cannot please God.

    Abel and Cain both made offerings to God but Able made his in faith and was accepted. That is how it started off and how it will finish up, is how I see it Bro Jeremy.
     
  15. Brother Jeremy Slone

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    yep, Cain made an offering but it was of the cursed ground by the works of his own hands which is dust of the same cursed ground if you will. what is the faith of man, is it not waivering or weak. But by Grace we go through Faith of Jesus Christ. Romans 3:22 it shows the righteousness is by the faith of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. We must be in him to have this faith which is not of our self but a gift of God. The just shall live by faith. and he is the author and finsher and in him we have life. I guess the question is: Is man deprived by nature or depraved by nature?

    Also does any one know if there is CDs available or a site where on could view historical Circular Letters of the old regular baptist associations. thankyou.
     
  16. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Brother Jeremy, I have not found any so far, I plan to put together all of the Cirular Letters I find, but that's a lot of typing!
     
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I read it as saying by Grace are you saved "through Faith", not by Grace we go through faith. The other way around.
     
    #577 Brother Bob, Jan 19, 2007
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  18. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Why do some people find that verse so difficult to understand? I prefer the King James. Most of it is easy to understand. We are saved BY grace, but we have to have faith which ALSO comes from God. Even the faith we have to be saved isn't from us; it's from God.
     
  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This thread is in the Baptist History forum and was intended for folks to share information about Baptist groups.

    It is not intendend to debate soteriology. Please return to the original purpose or the thread will be closed.

    Thank you.

    rsr
     
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