johnp,
You said,Here is my answer. I went to an Arminian Bible College and a friend of mine suggested this Calvinistic seminary. My friend stressed that they believed the Bible to be the Word of God. It was on this basis that I thought it would be a good place to study more of the Word of God.
I found out they would not even entertain the questions and views of the other students. In 1969 I would not even offer a question that disagreed with Dr. Rudolph. To me this was not a theological education, merely indoctrination. To be educated in theology one has to see all sides and then ask the Holy Spirit to show you the truth.
The Five Points of Calvinism and the Five Points of Arminianism are light years apart. I knew my Bible did not say that God damns people at will, and by His same inclination saves only some people.
To me it is at best irreligious to say that God damns the majority, and at worst it is blasphemy. Let's hope, for some of you guys, that the truth is somewhere in the middle. And what makes it even less palatable is when you gentlemen suggest that superlapsarian Calvinism are doctrines of grace. Wow! That's a stttrreetccchhhh!
Old Testament re-generation
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by crusader1611, Jan 15, 2005.
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John came preaching the Kingdom into which people are born again. This was not an OT reality.
People sacrificed animals in the OT. It is absurd to suppose God had regenerate people sacrificing animals for their sins and an insult to his son.
Jesus came to save his Jewish people from their sins because they were not saved. You can't die with Christ when Christ has not yet died. -
Hello Ben.
I am not sure where you are coming from with your reply so I thought I would take this oppotunity to say hello.
He trusted in the same One we do.
The sacrifices of the animals were prefiguring Christ or they were to show how they do not work.
Gen 22:12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son." 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
The sacrifices of Israel were made to make the types clean. HEB 9:23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 2:2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest...
God's on message from the start to the end.
Whatcha think?
johnp. -
Hi Ben
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike -
Perhaps you can explain why John came preaching the Kingdom of God too. -
Hello Ben.
Heb 2:2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest...
God's on message from the start to the end. The same message. Unless a man is born again he cannot see.
The OT crowd of saints needed to be clean outwardly because they were dealing with shadows of reality.
HEB 9:23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
It was necessary... But it is no longer necessary. We no longer deal with the shadows of Heaven. That does not mean that the OT saints had less than us. It's just that an act was taking place prefiguring the future.
His duty was to announce the arrival of the King and to prepare the Children of God so that were in the right spiritual demeanour to be presented to the Lord their God on His State visit. :cool:
John's baptism saved no one. I don't understand the question really.
How's that?
johnp. -
And pray tell, why would God have people sacrificing animals for their sins as "types" if they were already washed in the blood of Jesus by reality?
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
Now as for the "arrival of the Kingdom." Are you admitting the Kingdom had not yet arrived in the days of the OT saints before John? -
Ben.
HEB 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
JOB 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. (This destroys you by the way.)
Answer the post above yours.
johnp. -
Hi JohnP;
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike -
Busy tonight ILUVLIGHT I see.
Ready? :cool:
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Hi JohnP;
(This destroys you by the way.)Click to expand...
quote:
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The redeemer has lived always, but this doesn't mean He had already redeemed those in the O.T.[/b]
But the man himself says his Redeemer. If he says He is his redeemer he means he has been redeemed doesn't it?
So before you give yourself a gold star go back and reread what you obviously missed.
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My God does the judging not me and I will stand because He is able to make me stand as Moses stood, face to face with God eyeballing one another.Click to expand...
My God does the judging not me and I will stand because He is able to make me stand as Moses stood, face to face with God eyeballing one another.Click to expand...
But anyway Job destroys you. He knows His redeemer lives and he knows that he will be resurrected.Click to expand...
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
MikeClick to expand... -
ILUVLIGHT.
First of all it might serve you to know the proper way to use the quote tool. What is in bold in this quote is your words.Click to expand...
I said;
My God does the judging not me and I will stand because He is able to make me stand as Moses stood, face to face with God eyeballing one another.
You reply;
So now a burning bush has eyeballs :biggrin: You keep adding to scripture like you intend to rewrite it. :cool:
I am reduced I fear. To escape the cutting edge of this argument I will ask how you know a Burning Bush has no eyes? It could see Moses could It not? :cool:
How ever the atonement hasn't always been paid and that is were you miss the boat.Click to expand...
The rest of the paragraph would make for an interesting topic but I'm afraid that your answer about the burning bush leaves me with the impression that you, far from needing milk, you really do need to see the Kingdom of God.
It's almost as if you have no bible with you.
GE 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
Ex 33:11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.
NU 12:8 With him I speak face to face,
Jdg 6:22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the LORD, he exclaimed, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face!"
From the book of answers!
1 Cor 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. Not like Moses who saw Him face to face.
JOB 19:27 I myself will see him with my own eyes--I, and not other. How my heart yearns within me!
johnp. -
Hi JohnP;
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
May The Light Of Christ shine On Us All;
Mike -
GE 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
Ex 33:11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.
Nu 12:6 he said, "Listen to my words:
"When a prophet of the LORD is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.
NU 12:7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
NU 12:8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?"
DT 34:10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face
Jdg 6:22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the LORD, he exclaimed, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face!"
johnp. -
ILUVLIGHT.
[Born again Christians have not the sight of Moses!]
Hi JohnP;
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Click to expand...
Let me remind you.
I said;
My God does the judging not me and I will stand because He is able to make me stand as Moses stood, face to face with God eyeballing one another.
You reply;
So now a burning bush has eyeballs :biggrin: You keep adding to scripture like you intend to rewrite it. :cool:
My answer to that was; I am reduced I fear. To escape the cutting edge of this argument I will ask how you know a Burning Bush has no eyes? It could see Moses could It not? :cool:
It's almost as if you have no bible with you.
GE 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
Ex 33:11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.
NU 12:8 With him I speak face to face,
Jdg 6:22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the LORD, he exclaimed, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face!"
From the book of answers!
1 Cor 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. Not like Moses who saw Him face to face.
JOB 19:27 I myself will see him with my own eyes--I, and not other. How my heart yearns within me!
Would you like to respond to this old chap? Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Just does not cut the mustard. :cool:
johnp.
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