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Once Upon a Deep Time, Long, Long Ago....

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by church mouse guy, May 13, 2019.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Of course, your genetic fallacy not withstanding. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Chomper76

    Chomper76 Member

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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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  4. Chomper76

    Chomper76 Member

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    Unlike Kurt Wise, scientists can't ignore the evidence as they have a host of other scientists looking to falsify their hypotheses.

    Many Christians, like yourself will see.. oh PhD and he supports my beliefs, then not bother to see if what was written is true.

    It's ok. I did the same until Michael Behe was destroyed in the Dover trial and made shocking (to me admissions). He admitted lying that his book was not peer reviewed as he had claimed. His admission that he had not ever investigated his claim that evolution could not explain immunology. His admission that his own definition of theory was different than the science community and it was broad enough that astrology could have been considered a theory.

    I started paying more attention to misquotes that scientists were screaming about frequented in creation science books and dug deeper. The lack of honesty by these men parading their credentials while professing to be providing scientific evidence of creation was appalling. How could a Christian author purposefully lie?

    Funny... my eyes were opened to investigate evolution by dishonesty of men proclaiming to be men of science supporting God. Without their falseness, I'd have continued unquestioningly rejecting evolution. Turns out evolution wasn't Satan's lie. The liars were these Christians defending their beliefs.

    Thank you Phillip Johnson. Thank you Johnathan Wells, thank you Michael Behe, and thank you to the others whose names aren't on the top of my head.

    Oh and thank you also to the Jehovah Witnesses who gave my parents a creation book that was my favorite in my youth. I revisited it.. again more lies.
     
    #24 Chomper76, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Or they have a host of other scientists who are wanting to keep the echo chamber pure.
     
  6. Chomper76

    Chomper76 Member

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    That could most definitely be said about creationists. These pseudo-scientific organizations like Answering In Genesis get their money from evangelicals who donate and buy their books. They publish no peer reviewed articles in science publications. They aren't going to rock the boat and this their cash cow.

    See how easy it is to make up a baseless assertion? Do you have proof of yours?

    On the other hand we have scientists who become famous for falsifying held theories. Who would turn down a Nobel Prize and massive wad of cash just to "keep the echo chamber pure"?
     
  7. Chomper76

    Chomper76 Member

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    I'll give another example of dishonesty by creationists.

    Richard Owen

    Sir Richard Owen was one of the strongest scientific opponents of Darwinism during the age of Darwin, writing many articles and delivering many lectures against the ideas of natural selection that were gaining currency at the time.

    The truth is a bit different.

    Richard Owen | The Royal Society

    An outspoken critic of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, Owen agreed with Darwin that evolution occurred, but thought it was more complex than outlined in Darwin's On the Origin of Species. Owen's approach to evolution can be seen as having anticipated the issues that have gained greater attention with the recent emergence of evolutionary developmental biology.

    The dishonesty comes from only mentioning criticism of Darwin's idea of natural selection, not mentioning that Owen was still an evolutionist. That is quite strange for a group that created this Hall of Fame whose purpose is "honoring those who honored God’s Word as literally written in Genesis." Owen's research and beliefs certainly contradict a literal Genesis account. This is just another creationist attempt to add scientific credibility to their beliefs through dishonesty.
     
    #27 Chomper76, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Chomper76

    Where one type of animal fossil is found in one common layer, by what method of quick burial was the cause?
     
  9. Chomper76

    Chomper76 Member

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    There is no one method. Tar pits, volcanic ash, sap like amber, peat, mud, ice, marine sediment like sandstone moved by water currents and waves.
     
  10. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    What prevails is the Word of God, the Word is God.

    Based in the Word of God, the source of the truth, on God's six days of creation and one day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND would go through six God days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years).


    In accord biblical Chronology, we can number our days, beginning in Genesis chapter 5, as follow:

    Adam lived …...........................................................130 yrs and begat Seth
    Seth lived ...............................................................105 yrs and begat Enosh;
    Enosh lived ...............................................................90 yrs and begat Kenan;
    Kenan lived...............................................................70 yrs and begat Mahalalel;
    Mahalalel lived .........................................................65 yrs and begat Jared;
    Jared lived .............................................................162 yrs and begat Enoch;
    Enoch lived ..............................................................65 yrs and begat Methuselah;
    Methuselah lived....................................................187 yrs and begat Lamech;
    Lamech lived .........................................................182 yrs and begat Noah;
    From Noah´s birth until the Flood..........................600 yrs.
    Total of yrs from Adam to the Flood ..............1656 yrs.

    I work with the Word of God. Notice that the table above is proved by the Word of God, it is not of human theories or human speculations. Let us study the times until our days not by human theories and speculations, but by the Word of God. So, see the table below:

    PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES -------------------- DURATION
    I - From Adam to the Flood-------------------------------1,656 years (as was showed above)
    II - From the Flood to Abraham----------------------------427 years
    III - From Abraham to Exodus-----------------------------430 years - Gal.3:17
    IV - From Exodus to king Saul --------------------------- 396 years
    V - From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem ------------------ 508 years
    VI - From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus ---------------.587 years
    Thus, from Adam to the 1st coming of Jesus - 4,004 years

    From Jesus to our days (Christian calendar)-- 2,019 years

    Total from Adam to our days --------------------- --6,023 years


    Jesus came in the fourth Day or around 4.000 years after Adam or in the fourth Day.

    From JESUS (fourth Day) to our days, have passed more two Days or 2000 years, totalizing 6 complete Days or six milleniums, or around 6.000 years, more precisely 6.019 years, according Christian Calendar pointing the year 2.019.

    So, we have entered in the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day of God's time, that is the Great Sabbath, the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, the Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Millennium of Vengeance.

    The world of Devil is already Judged, and Condemned, and now, in this seventh and last millennium, it will be punished with strong punishments, there will be only and only punishments in this last Day, the Day of the Lord JESUS, King of kings and LORD of lords.

    And God Father has already entered in His rest, as He had planned in the beginning of His works, but He is not sleeping, of course, and JESUS assume the government of the Universe.

    JESUS is now sat on His Throne, the Judgment Seat of Christ, to Judge all nations, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not His gospel, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of His Power.

    verse 18 - And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth. - Woe of them -
    It's it.
     
  11. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    Alofa Atu said:
    Christians, that have understood the word of God, have always believed in a 6000 yearish old earth. Details here -

    The Table of time above refers not to the age of the Earth, but to the time established by the Most High and Almighty God to restore all things, which was dedstroyed in the Garden of Eden. Acts 3:v.19to24

    19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

    20 And he - God the Father - shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of RESTITUTION of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

    23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

    24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these Days.
     
  12. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    The post above was posted in June 16, 2019, and the great punishment started at the turn of the year 2019 to 2020.

    As I said in another topic times ago, the year 2020 was terrible for ALL nations, but 2021 will be worse, it would not make any sense to say "Happy New Year" because it would not be, that wish would not be fulfilled at all, next year would not be a happy year, actually there will never be years that one can say or call it happy, but only dark and horrendous years, and terrifying years, because of the wrath of the Lamb and severe punishments according to the two candlesticks.
    "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken"-Luke 21:v.26.

    See, the two Covenants will be DISSOLVED / dismantled by complete from now on. 2 Peter 3:v.7

    Be careful
    or get ready
     
    #32 Oseas3, Mar 7, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    It would go to point that believers should read Genesis 1:1-2:3 because that is where the chapter should have ended before starting the next chapter in regards to the next topic about where all the generations of mankind had come from which is a rehashing of the 6th day of creation but in more detail starting at Genesis 2:4.

    Genesis 1:1 is the topic while the following verses explains how this had all happened.

    Genesis 1:2-5 has the earth not created yet. So the first day was about the first day being created in creation by citing there was evening & morning the first day; hence the beginning has begun.

    Genesis 1:6-8 is the beginning of the earth being created as a water planet on the second day.

    Genesis 1:9-13 is the complete creation of the earth the third day with land.

    Genesis 1:14-19 was when God created the heavens with their bodies of light to give light to the earth to govern the times, & season that fourth day. That means the sun & moon & the stars were not there until the fourth day when God created the heavens to give light to the earth that day. That means He filled the gap with their lights to start governing the earth that day.

    So regardless of how fast light travels, there is evidence of maturity & intelligent design in the nature of creation in setting it up to run. No one can say God is deceptive when both the first man was an adult & had knowledge to understand God just as woman came along and had instant knowledge to understand Adam when he had spoken.

    Creation of plant life as full grown and bearing fruits & seeds is also proof of maturity & intelligence in design in setting up to run before for the coming of animals & mankind to eat from on land.

    When you read Genesis 2:1-3, you see the conclusion of Genesis 1:1 in how God created the heavens & the earth.

    Science cannot confirm their dating methods & when they have errant dating results as proven within history, like a living mollusks carbon dated as 2,300 years old dead, then no one should be accepting any timetable coming from the evolution theory at all when going beyond known human history as set forth by the Bible's timeline of 6,000 years per genealogy.

    That genealogy began in Genesis 2:4-25 which was before the fall.

    The Bible is Israel's family roots being given to Israel as inspired by God thru the Holy Spirit in Moses & other prophets for Israel to know where they had come from and the God Whom they serve,

    Important to note that no one, not even the animals, ate flesh for meat but herbs for meat per Genesis 1:29-30 It was after the flood that certain animals & man given flesh as meat to eat. Genesis 9:1-3 .

    Just as a mist watered the entire earth in Genesis 2:5-6 before it rained for the first time at the time of the global flood in Genesis 7:11-12

    What does that mean? Well, science discovered that the moon is slowly moving away from the earth. When we accept the word of God as is true, then the asteroid impacts on the moon & on he earth happened at the time of the global flood. The impact on the moon started at the global flood as it moves away from the earth, then the tide rises along with the first time the condensation of the mist into rain clouds to rain for the first time & has set that pattern for rain as the moon continues to move slowly away from the earth.

    Then you have the asteroid impacts on the earth for why the fountains of the deep rose up from beneath the earth & flooded the earth as per Genesis 7:11-12 also..

    You will find fossilized land animals with fossilized whale bones & marine life on the Andes Mountaintops buried together.

    Plus the one land mass started on the third day; Genesis 1:9-10 & the one land mass was divided in the days of Peleg. after the flood in Genesis 10:25. So that mean the seas was all in one place and the one land mass was bigger than it was today. Truth by His words testify that the western hemisphere & the eastern hemisphere was once one land continent. So the fabled sinking of Atlantis also hints of how the land was divided in the days of Peleg but on a greater scale. It would cause a tsunamis coming from the one place where all the seas was hence the Pacific basin, rushing over Mexico, and hitting the once lush Sahara with such a force, that when it receded, it took a lot of topsoil & vegetation & people back into the dropped region of the then formed Atlantic Ocean. That means the Ice Age following the flood in serving a man bridge was not how mankind had colonized the western hemisphere because the one land mass was still there after the flood but before the days of Peleg.

    We all prophesy in part & know in part but we can know from His words how old the earth & the heavens are from His words with His help & wisdom to understand His words for the way it is written for us to know the truth..
     
  14. timtofly

    timtofly Active Member

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    Genesis 2:1-6

    1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, along with everything in them.
    2 On the seventh day God was finished with his work which he had made, so he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce.
    4 Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven,
    5 there was as yet no wild bush on the earth, and no wild plant had as yet sprung up; for Adonai, God, had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no one to cultivate the ground.
    6 Rather, a mist went up from the earth which watered the entire surface of the ground.

    This should be a chapter alone by itself.

    Remember the Sabbath Day deals with these 6 verses.

    This chapter is the history of the first 1000 years prior to sin and prior to any death at all.

    It is not a recap of the first 6 days. It is the history of the generations during the Day of the Lord. This Sabbath was a Lord's Day equal to 1000 years of earth time. This Sabbath that God commands in the Law of Moses to Remember was not 24 hours, an evening and a morning. It was a Lord's Day set apart even before God planted the Garden of Eden. The middle east had a work in progress sign around it for 1000 years saying, will return to work in 1000 years.

    The sons of God spread out across the Continent multiplying as God had instructed on the 6th day of creation. God ceased from His labor of creation for the whole Day, 1000 years.

    Deep time took a 1000 year break. Because there was no change for 1000 years. No death, no decay, only forward motion. No seeds of any kind landed on the ground and germinated. Everything was eaten and thoroughly turned into calories.

    30 years after the Garden was created, sin and death entered the world. Adam exited the Garden, and the rest is observable history.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And then come the sons of God?

    Upon further thought I think you see the sons of God in the before V 7.

    Relate the sons of God to the daughters of men relative to your post even to the wife of Cain.
     
    #35 percho, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  16. timtofly

    timtofly Active Member

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    The sons of God came on the 6th day. Then 1000 years later. The earth of that time was mostly covered by 1000 years of them multiplying. God planted the Garden after the 1000 years. Then separated Adam out and placed him in this Garden. The first called out assembly was one son of God.

    Cain left the Garden after being marked, still a son of God, and found a wife among the sons of God.

    I think the sons of God left Adam and his alone until Methuselah's children. Adam was no longer alive. Lamech, was 56 years old when Adam died. If you do a comparison with Cains offspring, his offspring, Lemech boasted that he killed two men. The first son of God said to commit sin, after Cain. It is at that time that the sons of God decided to go against God and started allowing sin to come into their lives. They mixed the blood lines between sinful flesh and the image of God. Adam was no longer around as an example. Enoch went in the opposite direction, as a fallen human walked with God, while the sons of God turned against God.

    It is interesting that there was a 69 year gap from when Enoch was no longer found and the birth of Noah. Yet it was said that Noah was also righteous in God's sight, and also walked with God. He was 500 years old before God blessed him with triplets.
     
  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Interesting thoughts. Why do you think triplets? Also I think Canaan was brought forth by Noah's wife sired by Ham her son.

    Thoughts? Just as redemption came about by the birth of Jesus of the virgin woman Mary; Was the virgin Eve taken from Adam unto the Son of God but Adam knew her before she brought forth? Does it not make since that the need for redemption came about by birth just as the means for redemption came through, born of woman, a virgin?

    I believe chapter 1 of Matt considering the birth of Christ compared to Gen 4:1 is very telling.

    And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceiveth and beareth Cain, and saith, 'I have gotten a man by Jehovah;'

    Was she being literal but had been adulterated by Adam.

    I do not think I have ever seen this, thought, and do not know why I thunk, it.
     
  18. timtofly

    timtofly Active Member

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    Genesis 7:6

    "And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth."

    Noah was 500 when they were born. Genesis 5:32.

    "And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth."


    Then Genesis 11:11

    "These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:"



    I think Cain and Abel were born in the Garden prior to Adam's disobedience. I think Adam lived the first 30 years of the 130 till Seth was born, in the Garden. Seth being born 100 years later, after Adam was banned, as 100 years seems to be a cut off point of a curse. Isaiah 65.

    Adam could have been alone for 5 years. Then Eve was given. 5 years later, Cain. 5 years later Abel. Cain would have been 20, and Abel 15, 30 years after Adam was placed in the Garden. How long the two, Cain and Abel lived in the Garden is not known. It took 25 years for Satan to convince Eve. At 25, Cain could have finally decided enough is enough. That is just my 2 cents. Cain and Abel were easy births. That is about as close to perfection, I would put Cain. I think it was a couple of years at least if not 5, that Cain was finally given to both Adam and Eve as a couple.

    My thoughts: were the sons of God both male and female, and that is why God separated Eve from Adam? How they produced could have been totally different, yet possible with Adam's offspring, but a lot of speculation just on the human side much less, that God or angels were involved.

    If Eve was taken out of Adam years after being placed in the Garden, and the Garden was created after the 7th Day of rest, then Eve did not come on the 6th day of creation. There were many sons of God male and female per Genesis 1:27.
     
  19. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Thanks
     
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