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Only Those Whom the Father Draws to Christ

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by KenH, Aug 9, 2022.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."—John 12:32

    My soul! it is blessed, and refreshing to the faith of God's children, to behold, in their almighty Redeemer, the same properties as are ascribed to the Father and the Spirit; and more especially in the points which concern their personal salvation. Jesus told the Jews, that none could come to him," except the Father, who had sent him, should draw them;" John 6:44. And in the same chapter, he ascribes "the quickening power," which draws to Christ, unto the Holy Spirit, verse 63. But that his own sovereign power and Godhead is also included in this act of grace, he here teacheth us, by describing whose love and grace it is that sinners are drawn by! Precious Lord Jesus! let mine eyes be ever unto thee for the quickening, reviving, restoring, comforting, and all healing graces, which thou now art exalted, as a Prince and a Saviour to give unto thy people. And dearest Lord! I beseech thee, let my views of thee, and my meditation of thee, in this most endearing character, be sweet in the consideration also, that thou, as the head of thy church and people, must be the head of all spiritual, life-giving influences. Surely, blessed Jesus, the head cannot be happy, if the members be not made blessed; the source and fountain of all goodness must needs send forth streams to impart of its overflowing fulness. And is it not for this very purpose, that as God-man Mediator, "the Father hath given thee power over all flesh, that thou shouldest give eternal life to as many as the Father hath given thee?" John 17:2. And will not Jesus delight to dispense all blessings to his people, to his chosen, that are the purchase of his blood, and the gift of his Father, and the conquests of his grace? I feel my soul warmed with the very thought! I say to myself, ' Did my Lord and Saviour say, when upon earth, that he was "anointed to preach the gospel to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, and to give out of his fulness grace for grace?" And did my Lord say, moreover, that when "he was lifted up, he would draw all men unto him?" And shall I not feel the drawing, the constraining graces of his Spirit, bringing my whole heart, and soul, and spirit into an unceasing desire after him, and unceasing longing for him, and an everlasting enjoyment of him?' Precious, blessed Lord Jesus! let the morning, noon-day, and evening cry of my heart be in the language of the church of old, and let the cry be awakened by thy grace, and answered in thy mercy: "Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee; we will remember thy love more than wine;" Song of Solomon 1:4.

    - Robert Hawker, The Poor Man's Morning and Evening Portions, August 9, Evening
     
    #1 KenH, Aug 9, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    How can unregenerate man ever do anything to please a holy God? Think express true saving faith while still sinful
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    they can't. that's how. no faith. none good. salvation is of God, 100%.
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another thread pushing falselogy. John 5:25 says the dead can hear.

    John 12:32 indicates if a person hears about Christ being crucified for their sin, they will be attracted to that gift opportunity.

    Is John 6:44 speaking only to Jews? Nope.

    Does the quickening power draw individuals to Christ? Nope. The claim was that bit of nonsense can be found "somewhere" in John chapter 6. But that too is fiction.

    Yes, every indivdual given to (placed spiritually within) Christ is made alive eternally.

    Jesus promised to not cast them out. John 6:37.

    And we have yet another name for "irresistible grace." Here it is "constraining graces." I kid you not.

    What is the actual attracting power termed "draw?" God's lovingkindness! No star trek tractor beam is found in scripture.
     
  5. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 5:11-15 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. (emphasis mine)

    And then just six verses later we have a wonderful verse about the sins of the elect having been imputed to Christ and the perfect righteousness of Christ having been imputed to the elect:

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    In the book of John the context to “those who you gave me” is the disciples not everyone who is to be saved. Context is king
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The dead can hear not naturally, but when Christ raises them from the dead, which is a miracle, they hear, thats hearing by resurrection power. Thats not natural hearing.
     
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  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What people dont realize is that the drawing donr either by the Father Jn 6:44 or the Son Jn 12:32 it is the fruit of the New Birth. Its not the natural man dead in sin, that is being drawn, but its the New man with the new heart, mind, will and affections for the Spiritual things of God. The drawing is actually God causing us to walk in the way of obedience by His Spirit Ezk 36:26-27

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Its more than the disciples, the disciples weren't the only ones God gave to the Son.
     
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  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    A Person who God draws means He regenerates them. Only the regenerated are drawn.
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Which is it. We are still dead when Christ raises us (making us alive which is true) or we are not dead as scripture says when we hear the gospel.

    John 5:25
    “Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

    Why is it so hard for some to admit scripture actually means what it says, and it does not say the non-dead - regenerated will hear...

    That rewrite is Falselogy...
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another false assertion devoid of biblical support, thus a man-made assertion of Falselogy.

    Scripture says all who behold Christ high and lifted up (dying for them on the cross) will be drawn to Him. Scripture indicates we are drawn meaning attracted by God's lovingkindness.

    To equate drawn with regenerated is to actually redefine two words to create the false doctrine of Falselogy.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, the verse is referring to our love for God, not the other way around. Biblical illiteracy on display folks.

    The ambiguous phrase (yes another vague phrase claimed to indicate Falselogy!) love of Christ refers to our love for Christ, an objective genitive due to the context. In verse 11, it is because WE fear God that we try to persuade people, thus it is our characteristic that is in view.

    Here is the basic biblical truth, we love God because we beheld that God first loved us. But it our love for God that motivates and controls and compels our behavior to serve Christ. Recall "if you love Me, you will keep My commandments?"

    Next we see yet another try to change the subject. I kid you not. One false claim defended by making another false claim. Behold Falselogy.
     
    #14 Van, Aug 11, 2022
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The context of John 17. Specifically about the disciples only no one else

    Joh 17:6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

    Joh 17:7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you.

    Joh 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "For the love of Christ constraineth us,.... Or "containeth us"; holds and keeps us in our station and duty, as soldiers are held and kept together under a banner, or ensign displayed; to which the church refers, when she says, "his banner over me was love", Song of Solomon 2:4. Nothing more effectually keeps ministers, or other believers, in the work and service of their Lord, or more strongly obliges and constrains them to a cheerful discharge of their duty to him, and one another, than his love displayed in his covenant engagements, in his assumption of human nature, and particularly in his dying for them, which is the instance given in the text"

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The ambiguous phrase (yes another vague phrase claimed to indicate Falselogy!) love of Christ refers to our love for Christ, an objective genitive due to the context. In verse 11, it is because WE fear God that we try to persuade people, thus it is our characteristic that is in view.

    Here is the basic biblical truth, we love God because we beheld that God first loved us. But it our love for God that motivates and controls and compels our behavior to serve Christ. Recall "if you love Me, you will keep My commandments?" (John 14:15)

    Next we see yet another try to change the subject. I kid you not. One false claim defended by making another false claim. Behold Falselogy.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The Greek word is ἕλκω. According to Strong's, it means "drag".
     
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