Amy -- "disposed to" means like "availing themselves of."
And I guess the point of it NOT reading what TC claims is that it would be wonderful if we could know whom God had appointed to eternal life, wouldn't it? But we can't and how can even an apostle make such a statement? Even if he knows that is how God works, he still cannot be have any assurance that some of these believers only appear to believe -- are actually saved that day.
But they can say that they tried to avail themselves of eternal life in Christ, God willing. You remember that Simon Magus did likewise and it wasn't until the "Holy Ghost" was being distributed that it was discovered that he WASN'T "appointed" to eternal life and wasn't given the Spirit!
skypair
Ordained to Eternal Life
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Mar 1, 2008.
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My point would be that Acts 13:48 is not a "theology class." Were the apostles trying to teach predestination or the gospel, TC? Did the apostles even show any awareness of predestination before this event? Why does the context not just tell you that "that as many as desired eternal life partook of it?" Is there anything in the surrounding context that shows that Paul and Barnabas (or Luke who wrote Acts) were trying to promote predestination alongside the gospel?
What is it that tells us that Calvinism or Augustinianism didn't just "sneak" the concept in using this as one of their opportunities "eisogesis-wise." I'm suspicious, TC, on account of 2Tim 2:14 which tells us not to strive over words -- that doing so is usually subversive (leads us somewhere that the Bible context is not headed).
skypair -
TCgreek is correct. The word is tasso. It means:
G5021 tassō tä's-sō appoint, ordain, set, determine, addict
The NKJV reads "appoint".
I see nothing that indicates this words means "to avail themselves". This word is referring to what God does, not what man does. -
I am not disposed to believe much of what SP reports on the BB .
The word 'disposed' as a rendering for 'ordained' or 'appointed' in Acts 13:48 is just plain wrong . He gets it from that incredible Bible scholar -- Dave Hunt . D.H. in turn gets it from dubious Bible translations -- that stand alone with this unique wording . -
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agreed
I agree, how does that really affect or change anyones view. I believe God ordains all things, even sin. In ordaining it He allows it and uses it for the good of those that love Him. -
Clearly the word CAN mean such other words as "addicted" in other contexts. Yet you "read" a rigidity of definition here that I don't believe that scriptural sotierology allows. If "election" means that 100% of those who are elect will believe, then it is the "election" that is saving and not the believing.
skypair -
No, the obvious assertion is that they were availing themselves of eternal life by believing, not by election (which again I point out, the disciples and Luke would have no way of determining). The disciples could only report what they were WITNESSES to -- their believing.
skypair -
I had forgotten all about that, that was based on some "hebrew" text of Acts that when pushed David Hunt could not provide any historical basis for his assertion.
Silly man that Dave Hunt is .. Hebrew text of Acts :laugh: I :laugh: , but it is just :(
In Him,
Bill -
In Acts 13:48, who is doing the ordaining? -
How could he be so sure? How could he write so certainly? Because only those who are ordained to eternal life believe. No one believes without that ordaination.
It it were any other way, Luke's commentary on the story would be presumptious. -
Your post is neither here nor there, in respect to Acts 13:48. -
Ordained
We must believe all scripture the way God translated it for us. If we do any thing like those who change to limit the word all and the world we become no better than them.
It is God who does the work in us to believe. What we believe does not come from us, but His word. those who He ordained believe. You can believe this and also believe that God want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
When we come to God we don't have to believe any thing, it is His work for us to believe. Just come to Him as a child and let Him lead you to the truth. He told them follow me and I will make you fishers of men -
But even if that were not so, don't we believe that the bible is the inspired Word of God? Many of the human authors wrote things that they could not possibly have known by human reasoning. Think of all the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Saviour, for instance. Do you say, "Isaiah cannot have been writing about Jesus in Isaiah 53.9, because he would have had no way of knowing that Jesus would be placed in a rich man's tomb"?
Once again, you seem to be saying that Calvinists "don't believe in believing". And once again, I must say that neither I, nor anyone on this Board (as far as I am aware) holds that a person can somehow be saved by election, without the need for belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance.
Albert Barnes in commenting on Acts 13.48, says concerning the word translated there as "ordained" or "appointed":1. The word is never used to denote an internal disposition or inclination arising from one’s own self. It does not mean that they disposed themselves to embrace eternal life.
2. It has uniformly the notion of an ordering, disposing, or arrangement from without, i.e., from some other source than the individual himself; as of a soldier, who is arranged or classified according to the will of the proper officer. In relation to these persons it means, therefore, that they were disposed or inclined to this from some other source than themselves. That is something, coming as it does from the pen of a man who was accused of heresy, and suspended from the ministry, because of his free will position.
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OK, here's what he says: "The Greek word is tasso and has a variety of meanings and usages. It is found eight times in the New Testament and none of them carries the meaning of a decree from God nor of something that is unchangeable and eternal,... Many Greek experts suggest the same idea here: that the Gentiles [vice the Jews earlier in the chapter] had disposed themselves (i.e. determined) to believe." (p210 What Love is This?)
Others that agree are Cook's Commentary, Syriac, Josephus, Dean Alford, The Expositor's Greek Testament, A.T. Robertson and are mentioned by name.
The point is then made that CONTEXT and HARMONIZING SCRIPTURES deliver the true, intended meaning.
skypair -
And don't get me wrong -- everyone who believes is foreordained but the disciples can't know which ones make false professions and nor can they know which ones are foreordained but rejected this opportunity to believe! So unless the disciples were ordaining them themselves by some set of standards they chose (ostensibly "belief") and something they can OBSERVE, they cannot make this "blanket assertion, can they?
And all who are foreordained are to ministry, not to salvation. So actually, your interpretation contains 2 errors: 1) that they are ordained to salvation and 2) that they are ordained to believe. But it is correct that this comes before creation and if they are ordained to a ministry, they will obviously believe also.
skypair -
Here's what I've seen you do with this wee little verse here on this thread:- You've interpreted "as many as" to mean "some of those who".
- You've interpreted "were appointed " to mean "availed themselves of".
- You've interpreted "eternal life" to mean "ministry."
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- Because there is no way of knowing whether ALL who are "foreordained to eternal life" received eternal life that day yet the verse says "all."
In fact, there is no way to know who might have believed and not made an external profession.
skypair - Because there is no way of knowing whether ALL who are "foreordained to eternal life" received eternal life that day yet the verse says "all."
In fact, there is no way to know who might have believed and not made an external profession.
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skypair
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