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Featured Order of Salvation

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Jul 30, 2020 at 2:33 PM.

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  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The order of Salvation has always been faith first then we are saved. Yet some believe that they are saved first so they can believe. These verses below all state the true order of Salvation. There is no other way mentioned in scripture. Are those who believe they are saved first before they believe denying the real truth?
    John 3:16, acts 16:31, Mark 16:16 Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42, Act 2:21 Romans 10;9, Romans 10:13

    MB
     
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  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Nope. Guess again and its not repentance
     
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  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Hint

    Repentance and Faith are Grace gifts given by God AT THE SAME TIME, so that man can respond to the Gospel
     
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  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Regeneration comes first so man can believe it... Brother Glen:)

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
     
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  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Scripture please.
    MB
     
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Faith, then salvation.

    But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
    John 20:31

    In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
    Ephesians 1:13



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  7. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Acts 11:18
     
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  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”
    Acts 11:18

    Not just Jews, but Gentiles are also eligible for salvation--if they repent. Repent first, then salvation. Good verse.

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  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Notice that repentance comes from God
     
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  10. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    II Tim 2:25
     
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  11. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    II Thes 3:2. Not all have faith
     
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  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Since I suspect that this topic may have been created at my request from the following short exchange in another topic ...


    ... let me attempt to actually address your question and OP with more than a “one liner” response. For simplicity, I will stick with just the two verses posted in the older topic as a starting point. We can always move on to additional verses if you want to talk about them later.

    [John 3:16-21 NASB]
    16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

    Let’s start with John 3:16 quoted within its surrounding paragraph for context. So what is the “Ordo Salutis” (order of salvation) presented within John 3:16. First one must assume that the order of the phrases reflect their chronological order. I have no problem accepting that as a working assumption until and unless some other scripture more clearly makes a statement that renders such an assumption impossible. So what are the events of John 3:16 in chronological order.

    1. God loved the world.
    2. God gave His Son.
    3. “whosoever” believes (whosoever must be a person, so event #3 is a person believes)
    4. “Shall not perish” happens to “whoever believes” ... so it happens after they believe.
    5. “Have eternal life” comes after “not perishing”.
    So I have no problem with any of that. As far as “believing” coming “first”, John 3:16 places the work of God (loving the world and sending His Son) before the “believing” of men, and then places “not perish” and “eternal life” after the “believing” of men. I have no difficulty accepting that chronological order for those specific events.
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    [Acts 16:25-34 NASB]
    25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26 and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone's chains were unfastened. 27 When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!" 29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that [very] hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his [household.] 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.
    The second verse that you wanted to discuss the Ordo Salutis of was Acts 16:31 which I have quoted along with the paragraph surrounding it for context. So what exactly does the verse say comes before what?

    1. believe in the Lord
    2. You will be saved
    3. ... and your household will be saved.

    In general I agree with this order as well, however, there is a need of some caution since Paul was speaking to a specific individual about his specific circumstances. Some lessons are universal and some lessons are for specific times and places.

    Some points that stand out to me are Acts 16:30 where the jailer cries out “What must I do to be saved?”. Clearly God was at work and doing something in the heart of the Jailer even before Paul instructed him to “believe”. This is exactly the same thing we saw in Acts 2:37 where the crowd was “pierced to the heart” before asking “what must we do” and being instructed by Peter to “Repent and be baptized”.

    The relationship between believe and be saved is recorded in Romans as well ... “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.“ [Romans 10:9-10 NIV]
     
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that the real question is where does this “belief” come from?
     
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  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    So does salvation.
    So does conviction of sin.

    Not seeing your point?
     
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  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Whosoever is not in the greek
     
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Romans 10:17
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    MANY hear ... FEW believe. :(

    So, it seems to me that the real question is where does this “belief” come from?
    (There must be more to it than just that one verse.) :)
     
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  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    The KJV translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    The NIV translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

    The ESV translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

    The NLT translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

    The CSB translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

    The NASB translation team disagrees with you:
    • "“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

    The RSV translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

    The ASV translation team disagrees with you:
    • "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life."

    Darby disagrees with you:
    • "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal."

    Young disagrees with you:
    • "for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during."

    3:16 οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον

    Strong's G3956
    πᾶς pâs, pas; including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:—all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), × daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.​


    Is the message of John 3:16 really so different from the message of Act 2:21 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' [NASB]
     
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