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Original Sin Again

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rsr, Feb 22, 2018.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    There is no verse that declares that the Holy Spirit is God, but it is possible to look at Acts 5:3-4 and see that the Deity of the Spirit is 'necessarily contained' within those verses. There is no verse that declares that the Lord Jesus Christ is 100% Man and 100% God, but when we compare Scripture with Scripture we see that this truth is 'necessarily contained.'
    Then we have exactly the same view. If I looked at 'what I believe may be implied, I would not be holding to the 1689 Confession, would I?
    I believe that the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scriptures, to which nothing is to be added at any time, either by new revelation or by the traditions of men, so if I believed in any sort of tradition, I would not be holding to the 1689 Confession, would I?
    I have never appealed either to the 1689 Confession or to 'tradition.
    So am I, or I would not be adhering to the 1689 Confession would I?
    Being confessional by definition precludes eisogesis. Unfortunately Solo Scriptura very frequently does not.
    Your problem is that you have not the faintest idea about what being confessional means and therefore you are just spouting your offensive venom not merely at me (as if I cared) but at Benjamin Keach, C.H. Spurgeon and a whole host of others who held to Sola Scriptura precisely because they held to the great confessions. The Covenant of Works is clearly present in Scripture, but unfortunately your own presuppositions prevent you from seeing it.
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    What about the invert?:

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Jn 4
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Even more importantly than that would be the doctrine that in the fall, we all became corrupted and thus born with a sin nature, bent away from God, and If Jesus was born in that state as we all here were, how would he qualify to be able to save any of us?
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    How about...


    Acts 20:28
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.



    ...or...


    Romans 8:9
    King James Version (KJV)

    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



    ...?


    How about...


    Acts 7:51
    King James Version (KJV)

    51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.



    ...where the Spirit is said to be resisted when in fact it is God Who they resisted when He spoke to them?

    By the way, how's that sermon coming along?


    God bless.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the water". No where is this theoretical covenant actually in the Bible.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    None of those state that the Holy Spirit is God. You may think that by good and necessary consequence they prove that to be the case, and I might agree with you,

    Nice try though!:)

    And you. :)
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't say that He's God, only that He belongs to God. The J.W.s would soon put you right.
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Nice try, but it doesn't say that He is the Spirit and a separate Person.
     
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I'm a little surprised, lol. They do state the Holy Spirit is God.


    The Holy Ghost made them overseers to feed the Church of God, which He (the Holy Ghost) has purchased with His Own Blood.

    It is a Trinitarian implication which shows the union of the Trinity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

    How about:


    1 Corinthians 3:16
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?



    We are the temple of God, and it is the Spirit Who resides in us.

    And one more, for now, have to get going:



    John 14:15-18
    King James Version (KJV)

    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



    Here we see that both the Spirit of Truth and Christ are named in the coming indwelling. The implication is that They are One.


    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



    Here we see the Father and the Son. Now Who is it again promised to those Who believe?

    God, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.


    Okay, one more:


    Acts 5
    King James Version (KJV)

    3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?


    4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


    This is kind of fun, so...


    2 Corinthians 3:16-17
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

    17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


    Okay, one more (for real this time):


    John 3:5-6
    King James Version (KJV)

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



    John 1:11-13
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



    ;)


    But I didn't impose anything into the texts that isn't already there. Implicit teaching is just as valid as explicit.


    Hey thanks!


    God bless.
     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    That is funny...pretty stupid but funny. Scripture speaks of God's Spirit and you don't think this speaks to God's Spirit actually being God. T he doctrine, to you, is implied.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong. Their idea that Scripture does not specifically state the divinity of Father, Son, and Spirit only shows their biblical illiteracy.

    If, however, you do not see your version of the doctrine written in Scripture then you should hold it less than you would Scripture itself.
     
    #150 JonC, Mar 3, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  11. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    What verse says Adam was "spiritually alive"?
     
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I'm thinking Martin is playing devil's advocate. I don't think he would deny the Spirit is God, or that God is the Spirit.

    I would be really surprised if that were the case.

    Hope you and everyone here has a blessed day.


    God bless.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    He is in a way. He still rests his belief on the Trinity in what he believes Scripture implies rather than what is written. It's dangerous ground.
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ok, God's a holy spirit.
     
    #154 kyredneck, Mar 3, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Well, God warned him that once he fell, would taste death, and we know that physical death took time, but spiritual life died quickly!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, rather that while the term is not contained in the Bible,m the concept of the trinity is implied and stated in there.
    Same way Jesus never directly said"I am God", but his deeds and words did really imply that to us!
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    No one (I hope) is talking about certain terms being or not being in Scripture because no one here (again, I hope) is utterly stupid. Here’s a headline – the Bible was not originally given in English.

    Psalm 139:8-8 proves that God’s Spirit refers to God (Hebraic literature). John 14:7 proves that the Spirit is God abiding in us. Zechariah 4:6 speaks in a like manner of God’s Spirit being God. Luke 1:35 is a proof that God’s Spirit is God’s power. Job 33:4 proves that the Spirit is God (that it is He who has made us). Psalm 139:7 links God’s Spirit with God’s presence. And we could go on, and on, and on. While I'm not amazed, I do find it sad (but very expected) that both you and @Martin Marprelate can't see that Scripture itself equates in what is written (not implied) God's Spirit with God.

    But this is not even relevant. What you are saying is that it doesn’t really matter what God’s Word actually states because it will be received only by what you believe to be implied in that Word. The overruling factor is your tradition, your ideas, your understanding, your theories, and your theology. This is heresy, plain and simple. You both render Scripture as subservient to your tradition. You are Romish-Baptists or, if you prefer, Romish-Reformed, because your tradition is to you what the RCC is to its members.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    So you interpreted the verse as "on the day you eat of the fruit, that day you will die" instead of what is actually written. I suppose you believed it implied. If you believe that Adam was alive spiritually then you have to believe that Adam died spiritually (Adam had spiritual life - i.e., the Spirit of God in him) yet that Spirit died.

    If you ever wondered, the idea that Adam died spiritually is a fiction your theology made up not too long ago. It is not in the Bible, it is not even implied in Scripture. The Hebrew religion did not hold that Adam died spiritually, neither did it teach that Adam's sin is inherited. Neither did first century Judaism. You (as @Martin Marprelate has) may say that you don't care what they believed, but then you are ignoring exegesis by ignoring how Scripture was received by the initial audience.

    You are holding your faith secondary to your tradition (like Catholics who are saved not because of but despite their traditions).
     
  19. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    This all is so reminiscent of stuff like this from ARBCA:

    Concerning the Continuance Of Revelatory Gifts in the Present Day

    "It is always understood that Scripture must be the final authority over the conscience on this issue. However, the member churches of ARBCA have already confessed that the LBC is a faithful summary of what Scripture teaches and that subscription to it is the basis for our unity as an association of churches. Detailed issues of exegesis can be addressed in messages delivered at our convention or in suggested reading. This is why this position paper deals more with the exposition and application of the LBC to this issue rather than a lengthy exegesis of Scripture."
     
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    In the Hebrew you will note that death is spoken of twice :
    מִמֶּנּוּ מֹות תָּמֽוּת׃

    Translated by Young's Literal as

    YLT Genesis 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

    The implication that there are two deaths - one immediate, one in the time continuum.
     
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