3AM, Jesus broke the bread which He consecrated and gave it to the Apostles with the instruction to eat of it.
The "breaking" of the bread was done by Jesus, not the Apostles. Jesus blessed and broke the bread. The Apostles partook of it by eating.
In Mass, the priest blesses and breaks the bread and we partake of it by eating.
This is absolutely in line with what our Lord instructed.
Jesus did not say, "Take and break the bread."
You seem to be either adding to Scripture or are being legalistic.
Paganism??
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jude, Feb 21, 2003.
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Mom,
Your view of the Lord's Supper is that Jesus is not physically present. Am I not correct? If so, it is pure observance and remembrance. Am I not correct? Therefore, if the bread is broken or not broke, it is purely a symbolic act, so there is not the matter of validity. Something that doesn't accomplish anything other than remembrance doesn't have the same necessity of validity as an act in which something is actually produced.
And yet, you are applying this necessity of complete validity on our practice of the Eucharist, WHICH YOU ALREADY REJECT. You do not believe that Christ is physically present in our Eucharist. Therefore, even if we broke the bread to your particular liking, you would still say that our Lord's Supper is invalid because what we believe happens doesn't really happen. Am I not correct?
Therefore, since the function of the Lord's Supper between our two faiths is monumentally different, you cannot place the same objections on it when speaking of matters of validity. This is as ridiculous as saying that baptism by immersion is necessary when Baptism is merely a symbolic act that in no way has anything to do with salvation.
Now, as Catholic, the actual "breaking" of the bread is not necessary for the physical presence of Christ to replace the elements of bread and wine. A host that is in a monstrance is just as much Jesus Body as one that is broken and shared.
But, again, I stress, that you reject our Eucharist as invalid for an entirely different reason, so attacking this angle does not even make sense. If we performed it just like you would like us to, but still believed that Jesus was physically present, you'd be just as upset with us.
Get the point?
God bless,
Grant -
Mom,
Have I ever made a blanket statement about SDAs? Have others on this board? Please quote them, and I'll help you get on to them, as blanket statements our counter productive.
If not, then don't drag your outside personal ideas about Catholics into this board with Catholics who most likely will not treat you like that.
God bless,
Grant -
Wow, I'm so glad we were able to discuss labyrinths :eek:
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Well stated.
God bless,
Grant -
"Gracesaves
You probably already know this but in case you don't.
I read that SDA theology teaches that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, and the pope is the anti-christ. They perceive any attempt to defend the Church as an attack on their theology. They literalily cannot be SDA unless they continue to be strongly anti-Catholic."
NOW, you said you would get on to them......
And since your last statement was IF there aren't, I can ignore it, because there ARE.
However, you are right that I don't need to make blanket statements. Not every Catholic out there is like that.
I didn't say that Catholics were stupid or anything. I was just pointing out that it is usually hard for me (thus the phrase 'in my experience') to get a Catholic to think for themselves.
My challenge still stands though. Prove me wrong. Suprise my pants off!
God Bless -
I wouldn't EVER add to Scripture. I believe in it too much. :eek:
I am not being legalistic.
The bread at Mass is broken?
Every piece?
Not in my experience. IF your assembly is breaking every piece, then they are in line with scripture, and we don't have an argument!
It is those who DO NOT break the bread that I have an argument with.
God Bless -
It seems that you equate disagreement with the teachings of the Church with thinking for myself.
Since you no doubt "think for yourself", you must be in disagreement with your church.
What doctrinal disagreement do you have with your church? -
Or perhaps you can provide the chapter and verse that says that Jesus broke every piece of bread?
Or perhaps you are reading into the Scripture with your belief that there was either only one piece of bread or that Jesus broke every piece.
BTW, will you give me the benefit of the doubt that my questions come from "thinking for myself", or do you believe that I called Rome for them? -
You know, when He said THIS is my Body that was broken for you. THIS. The BROKEN Bread.
God Bless -
I still feel that this 'unification' of all 'real' Catholics to be more of an imagination or ideal than a reality. :rolleyes:
Neal -
"Gracesaves
You probably already know this but in case you don't.
I read that SDA theology teaches that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, and the pope is the anti-christ. They perceive any attempt to defend the Church as an attack on their theology. They literalily cannot be SDA unless they continue to be strongly anti-Catholic."
NOW, you said you would get on to them......
And since your last statement was IF there aren't, I can ignore it, because there ARE.
However, you are right that I don't need to make blanket statements. Not every Catholic out there is like that.
I didn't say that Catholics were stupid or anything. I was just pointing out that it is usually hard for me (thus the phrase 'in my experience') to get a Catholic to think for themselves.
My challenge still stands though. Prove me wrong. Suprise my pants off!
God Bless </font>[/QUOTE]Mom,
After he made that statement, I replied:
Heya,
Most denominations have something like this in their core beliefs, though some of them don't actively promote it (LCMS Lutherans, for instance). I figure its more up to the individual, but okay.
God bless,
Grant
I already stated that I don't like that blanket statement, because individuals vary in how they want to take it. Further, you clarified what the actual belief was, so I thought that this was settled.
God bless,
Grant -
It seems that you equate disagreement with the teachings of the Church with thinking for myself.
Since you no doubt "think for yourself", you must be in disagreement with your church.
What doctrinal disagreement do you have with your church? </font>[/QUOTE]If thinking for yourself produces thoughts like that, you should stick with the written stuff!
;)
I would hope that your perception of my statement would have been to think for yourself about what the BIBLE says, instead of letting someone else interpret it for you.
I don't have any disagreements that I can think of with my church's doctrine because before I joined I tried it all against the unfailing rule of the Word of God.
Then while I thought for myself, the Holy Spirit led me into all truth.
He can do the same for you!
Although you must step 'outside' of the box. It is a little scary out here.
God Bless -
Mom,
I'd be interested to see your reply by Thess about the breaking of the bread. Was there one piece of bread, or many? We don't know. If there was, it doesn't say Jesus broke all of them. If it was one, we don't know how many times he broke it (once, or into twelve pieces?). Did the disciples break a piece off and pass it around?
These kinds of things are recorded. The bread IS broken (the large host used by the priest). And before being consumed, the end result of all this, the host used in a monstrance will be broken.
Again, please address Thess's questions, because I think they refutre your argument.
God bless,
Grant -
Grant,
That actually was exactly what I was getting at.
You saw the blanket statment, AND responded to it, but them proclaimed "no Catholic does that!!!"
You see, they do, and they have.
:rolleyes:
It gets really old after a while to have to explain that you are not like what the slam sites make us all out to be.
You see the correlation?
I know you understand.
God Bless -
I said "no Catholic does that?" I said "they don't do that here, or if they do, I will get on to them." Something to that effect. You found an instance. I showed you that I had already responded against the blanket statement.
Please do not reword my words for me.
God bless,
Grant -
God bless,
Grant -
Grant.
Get a grip.
Move past this.
Where do you see THessalonian asking me questions in this thread?
I don't see it. -
God bless,
Grant </font>[/QUOTE]Are you serious?
Do you really want me to address that? -
Sorry, I meant "Trying" instead of "Thess."
And yes, why don't you laughingly tell us all (since you apparently know all the details) about how my examining the Catholic faith, from a Protestant, Sola Scriptura background, is different than your own joining the Church.
I can't wait to hear the fiction you come up with.
God bless,
Grant
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