Parents Who Spank Being Made Criminals

[Linda64]

In view of what is going on in another thread about "Child training", I thought this would be an interesting and an eye-opening article. This is going on in California, but it might be coming to your state soon (for the non-California residents).

LAW OF THE LAND
Parents who spank being made criminals
Democrats advance plan calling for probation, protective orders

Posted: April 19, 2007
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

Democrats on a legislative committee in California have advanced a plan that would make criminals of any parent who uses "a stick, a rod, [or] a switch" to discipline their misbehaving child, and parents rights' organizations are up in arms.

"This was a bad day for parental rights in California," said Karen England, of Capitol Resource Institute.

"Arrogant California legislators have decided … they know how to raise children better than parents. However, we are confident that California parents will make their voice heard and defeat these despicable bills," she said.

California Assembly Speaker pro Tempore Sally Lieber (California Assembly)

The proposal is AB755, a plan by California Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, that is billed as a plan for "corporal punishment."

But it does more.

"AB755 biases police officers, social workers, district attorneys and juries to regard traditional methods of child discipline as hateful, harmful abuse," said Randy Thomasson, president of the Campaign for Children and Families.

"This irresponsible committee has passed a very irresponsible bill. Since juries already have broad authority to convict and sentence child abusers, AB755 is unnecessary. The real purpose of the bill is to transform good parents who use traditional methods of discipline into suspected child abusers in the eyes of the law," Thomasson said.

(Story continues)

 

[webdog]

One shouldn't spank their child in public anyway, so I see this as geared only towards those who do, and rightly so. If a parent has no problem spanking in public, they are probably abusing their children in private.

 

[Revmitchell]

One shouldn't spank their child in public anyway, so I see this as geared only towards those who do, and rightly so. If a parent has no problem spanking in public, they are probably abusing their children in private.

The first does not lead to the second.

 

[webdog]

The first does not lead to the second.

I agree...but the likelihood of abuse increases.

 

[annsni]

I have spanked my children in public - but it was only for serious offenses. One time a child ran from me in a parking lot and another time a child was willfully defiant. But the majority of the time, I will not do it but will take them to a private area and spank them away from everyone including siblings.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree...but the likelihood of abuse increases.

Based on what?

 

[webdog]

Based on what?

The incorrect application of the rod. If one is not applying it the way it should be, chances are they do not understand the use of it. Spanking in anger is abuse, public or private.

 

[Revmitchell]

The incorrect application of the rod. If one is not applying it the way it should be, chances are they do not understand the use of it. Spanking in anger is abuse, public or private.

So what is your implication with regards to the incorrect use of the rod?

 

[mcdirector]

never mind . . . .

 

[webdog]

So what is your implication with regards to the incorrect use of the rod?

This conversation is going in circles.

 

[Revmitchell]

This conversation is going in circles.

How is it going in circles? You mentioned the incorrect use of the rod. I am trying to find out what in the world you meant by that. Who used it incorrectly and what standard determines this?

 

[webdog]

Public use of the rod is incorrect. I already stated that. This new "law" should not affect those who use the rod correctly.

 

[Revmitchell]

Public use of the rod is incorrect. I already stated that. This new "law" should not affect those who use the rod correctly.

Where do you get the idea that public use of the rod is incorrect?

 

[webdog]

Correction is between the parent and the child, not the parent, the child and everyone else who happens to be around. The point of the rod is to bring the child back into the circle of protection God promises, not to make a spectacle of the child in public. In today's society, it's a stupid thing to spank your child, and abusive. The world doesn't understand, nor accept the rod as a viable means of punishing a child. They will take your child first, and ask questions later. Good luck getting your child back at that point. All use of corporal punishment needs to be in PRIVATE between the child and parent.

 

[Revmitchell]

Correction is between the parent and the child, not the parent, the child and everyone else who happens to be around. The point of the rod is to bring the child back into the circle of protection God promises, not to make a spectacle of the child in public. In today's society, it's a stupid thing to spank your child, and abusive. The world doesn't understand, nor accept the rod as a viable means of punishing a child. They will take your child first, and ask questions later. Good luck getting your child back at that point. All use of corporal punishment needs to be in PRIVATE between the child and parent.

So your standard is what the world thinks? Do you have any scripture for your position?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Sure looks like private punishment to me... NOT!!!

 

[abcgrad94]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Sure looks like private punishment to me... NOT!!!

A drunken and a glutton is a far cry from a youngster who is just testing his parents' limits at the grocery store. The "rod" is for correction, not to "shame" a child in front of a bunch of people who aren't personally responsible for him. In Matthew 18 we're told to go to someone one on one first if they have done something wrong. The same principle should be applied to correcting a child.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

A drunken and a glutton is a far cry from a youngster who is just testing his parents' limits at the grocery store. The "rod" is for correction, not to "shame" a child in front of a bunch of people who aren't personally responsible for him. In Matthew 18 we're told to go to someone one on one first if they have done something wrong. The same principle should be applied to correcting a child.

The beginning of that verse says if the son is rebellious and stubborn. That is why they are going to the elders, not because of drunkenness, but because of rebellion.

As to the Matthew 18, that is Church discipline, not family discipline. Different rules apply.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Public use of the rod is incorrect.

Poor Webdog. His children just aren't old enough for him to have experienced the need to forcefully correct one in public. Just wait, it'll catch up to him.

Webdog, voice of experience speaking here. Your children will eventually realize that you aren't correcting them where there are other people around. When they do, I promise you, they won't believe it's because you are trying to spare them embarassment. They are simply going to view this as a weakness and push whatever side issue you've said no to.

Example: Jonny wants candy at the checkout aisle. You have said no. Jonny wails and screams and reaches for it again. The clerk is patiently waiting for you to finish unloading your fully loaded buggy, but she is getting an exasperated look on her face. You square your shoulders and say no once again. Jonny carefully apraises the situation and decides it's now or never. "Dad doesn't spank me in public and now he's caught between me and this whole buggy full of groceries." Time for a power play. Jonny starts screaming with renewed vigor and starts pulling items off the shelves and throwing them to the floor.

Whatcha gonna do, Webdog?

Example 2: Jenny begins to scream the moment she gets into the car, every single afternoon, at the injustice of being made to wait until she gets home to have a snack. And I mean every single afternoon. You have ensured that the school is offering plenty of opportunities for Jenny to eat and that is not the issue. Matter of fact, that afternoon's snack is in Jenny's hand at the moment. But you have a rule about not eating in the car and she has no drink. This is not the first afternoon this arguement has ensued, but is just another in a long list of afternoons where wailing has occured with the enforcement of the ban on car snacks.

Whatcha gonna do?

I'll flat out tell you what I did. In the first instance, I picked up my little Jonny, told the store clerk I'd be right back, carried him kicking and screaming to the restroom and took care of the problem with a suitably applied hand to applied to the part of his anatomy God gave for the purpose. We then finished our check out in shocked silence from Jonny, and smiles and grins from the other adults in the area. Not one questioned my method. Jonny for some reason never wanted to repeat the conversation.

In the second instance, it was time for an end. I gave little Jenny a certain amount of time to hush or I was going to pull over, pick a switch and use it right there on the side of the road. She looked at me as though she didn't believe me and kept right on wailing. I waited the amount of time promised and proceeded to pull over to the nearest wild privet. Jenny is stubborn and putting the car in park had no effect. Neither did opening the car door and getting out. But by the time I reached the hedge bush and picked a fine limb designed more for intimidation purposes then pain, there was absolute silence in the car. Amazing! But too late. The promised punishment was applied right there on the side of the street, because I know my child well enough that if I hadn't there would have been peace that afternoon but the next day would have been a repeat. Funnily enough, I never had to repeat that conversation either.

Those two times, were among the only three times my children had to be disciplined in public. (my husband got to be the one who dealt with the other one after she hid from him and the half dozen store clerks who were trying to help find her)

I'm not about to ever say that a parent shouldn't discipline their child in public. There are times when it is appropriate. To have a law that across the board says, you can't spank in public, is reckless nonsense.

 

[abcgrad94]

Edited because I posted at the same time as mk, and she answered my question.