I guess thats where we have trouble agreeing. You see, we consider "New Jerusalem" as the Church, part of her is in Heaven (souls of the dead believers), and part of her is still here. We do not believe "New Jerusalem" is a city liken unto a city of men, where you need intrastructure, such as sewage, water, electricity, taxes, etc, you name it. We believe "New Jerusalem" is a city not made with hands, which has twelve foundations and the names of the Twelve Apostles, twelve gates and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, God and the Lamb is the light of that city (not the sun and the moon), God and the Lamb are the temple of that city, not the temple of Solomon, it has a street of God, with mansons and we as believers make up that city as pillars, and we have the name of that city "New Jerusalem".
While you are looking for that city over in natural Jerusalem, we believe its in building today. God adds to the church daily, such as should be saved, makes them a pillar in that city. We believe when you see that city coming down from God out of Heaven, its the souls of the believing dead, coming for their bodies. We are worlds apart and I see no way we will ever come together. I do not want the Messiah that the unbelieving Jews want. I have the Messiah, that really has already come to them and us, and I am not looking for another one. The city I am talking about has twelve gates that have the twelve tribes of Israel, so I suspect that Abraham, Issac and Jacob is a part also. I believe that to be the promised land, unfortunantely the unbelievers will not be there, and that includes a large part of Israel, that is not of the remnant and elect.
I am not looking to live on this earth anymore after I die. I am looking to be resurrected with a spiritual body that can't die and with my soul that came back for me. I believe I will meet the Lord in the air and He will take me to the manson He promised me. I believe it to be where God is. You and Israel can have the earth, I do not want it. Peace,
BBob,
Partial Preterist Viewpoint on Revelation
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by dragonfly, May 10, 2008.
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Believe me, how "the Bible uses language" is NOT a problem for me!
skypair -
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More “poison” from Spurgeon and Boettner:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Spurgeon:
"For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Read the record written by Josephus of the destruction of Jerusalem, and see how truly our Lord’s words were fulfilled. The Jews impiously said, concerning the death of Christ, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Never did any other people invoke such an awlful curse upon themselves, and upon no other nation did such a judgment ever fall. We read of Jews crucified till there was no more wood for making crosses; of thousands of the people slaying one another in their fierce faction fights within the city; of so many of them being sold for slaves that they became a drug in the market, and all but valueless; and of the fearful carnage when the Romans at length entered the doomed capital; and the blood-curdling story exactly bears out the Savior’s statement uttered nearly forty years before the terrible events occurred."
"The destruction of Jerusalem was more terrible than anything that the world has ever witnessed, either before or since. Even Titus seemed to see in his cruel work the hand of an avenging God. (Commentary on Matthew, p. 412)
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Loraine Boettner
"Premillennialists of both schools relate the prophecy concerning a Great Tribulation to a future period, holding that it occurs at the very end of the age, and are so blind to the fact that it already has been fulfilled literally in the year 70 A.D.
One reason that it is so difficult for some people to realize that the Great Tribulation had its fulfillment in the siege and fall of Jerusalem is what a landmark in history the break-up and abolition of the Old Testament economy really was. For a period of 1500 years God had worked with and through the Jewish people exclusively in matters pertaining to salvation." (The Millennium, rev. ed., Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, [1957] 1984, p.201)
You can’t slice and dice Luke 21 and Matthew 24 to make it fit your pet doctrine. It speaks of the same event.
Not sure what the passages in Isa. you listed have to do with Isa. 40:3-4. Is Is. 40:3-4 not speaking of John the Baptist?
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Jesus was quite clear who Elijah was:
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
I don’t read anything about a “type” in my Bible? Where is that “literally” found??
The disciples finally figured it out (vs. 17), yet dispies continue to miss it.
More evidence it was John:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Speaking of the birth of John:
Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Bingo!!!!! We finally have a winner. “Whatever it meant in their vernacular” is the key, not your 21st century, western, English speaking literalism.
Now take your new found knowledge and apply it to the Olivet Discourse. What did this type of language mean in the Hebrew vernacular?
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Let’s go to the OT and find out:
Here is the description of the fall of Babylon by the invading Medes:
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
See how easy it is without the lens of Hal Lindsey?
You didn’t answer my question of your literal interpretation of words like, “soon”, “near”, and “at hand”. -
Does OT ever say that the "kingdom" is "literal"???
Does OT ever say that the "kingdom" is physical???
I do not believe it ever says any of these three four things, specifically.
The words "physical" and "literal" are never found anywhere in the KJV, to my knowldedge; Neither are the words "natural" and "kingdom", or those of "spiritual" and "kingdom" ever found together in any verse in the KJV, as far as I can determine.
But there are decided and specific characteristics of the (future) Kingdom found many places in the OT.
Some would seem at any ordinary reading to refer to something we would normally characterize as "physical" or "natural", e.g. (Dan. 7:14; Ob. 21) I see the same principle in the NT.
Some would seem at any ordinary reading to refer to something we would normally characterize as "spiritual", e.g. (Ps. 22:8; 45:6) I see the same principle in the NT.
I also see that I definitely need to get back to bed and get some more sleep.
Ed -
BBob, -
Plus in the verses you mention, Jesus tells us the "Elijah shall TRULY come first" but as regarding John the Baptist being Elijah, He says "If you can receive it." IOW, John the Baptist did come before Christ but neither he nor Jesus could "restore all things." However, they did restore the spiritual foundations of the yet to come earthly kingdom, right?
13:11 -- "...I will punish the WORLD for their evil..." The Rev 16 plagues are known as "the wrath of God" and they are upon the whole world.
13:12 -- "I will shake the heavens and the earth shall move out of its place." The capture of Babylon by the Medes was almost bloodless with no accompanying earthquake reported or needed.
13:19 -- "And Babylon ... shall be as Sodom and Gommorah" Again, the Medes did not obliterate Babylon but we see in Rev 16:18-20 and 18:21 that the last Babylon will be destroyed as Sodom.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
skypair -
GH -- I guess I missed this entire post. Perhaps the "soon," "like" and whatever are in this one. :laugh:
And try to put these all into the context of Ezek 40-48. Israel lives in ALL the land promised to Abraham and it is divided to the tribes. There is the "living water" that flows from the throne to give life to even the Dead Sea. The temple described here is 1.5 miles square -- enormous! The priesthood will be after Zadok, not Aaron. Ezek 43:7 and Zech 14:9 tell us that God will live and reign phyically among them. NONE of this has come to pass yet, GH.
Actually, you should be able to tell by my post that I get along quite well with the Bible alone, now.
I still don't find those "soon" and "like" questions.
skypair -
Ed -
Perhaps you can explain then how the following verses are possible if their flesh, eyes, and tongues have dissolved:
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
Are not hands considered flesh? For someone who insists on literalism you sure have a lot of contradictions.
You falsely assume those living in Israel today or in the future have any association with the Jews of the 1st century. Secondly there is nothing worse that can happen to a people than to cease to exist as a covenantal people of God. Thirdly you ignore the context of verse 34:
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Dude, you really need to study partial-preterism and what it teaches.
Not even the non-Reformers agree with you:
John Wesley:
Isa 40:3 - The voice - An abrupt speech. Methinks I hear a voice. Wilderness - This immediately relates to the deliverance of the Jews out of Babylon, and smoothing their passage from thence to Judea, which lay through a great wilderness; but principally to their redemption by the Messiah, whose coming was ushered in by the cry of John the baptist, in the wilderness. Prepare ye the way - You to whom this work belongs. He alludes to the custom of princes who send pioneers before them to prepare the way through which they are to pass. The meaning is, God shall by his spirit so dispose mens hearts, and by his providence so order the affairs of the world, as to make way for the accomplishment of his promise. This was eminently fulfilled, when Christ, who was, and is God, blessed for ever, came into the world in a visible manner.
No, Jesus was quite clear on the matter and the Disciples realizing it wasn’t to be the reincarnation or reappearing of Elijah but was John:
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Gill, on what is meant by “restore all things”:
and restore all things. The Syriac and Persic versions render it, "shall perfect, or complete all things", that are prophesied of him; and shall put a period to the law and the prophets, and close the Mosaic economy, and direct persons to Christ; in whom are the perfection of the law, and the fulfilling of the prophets.
Perhaps you can show us in the OT where two Kingdoms were to come, one spiritual and one physical.
Hello, that was the prophecy of Malachi telling us what “Elijah” would do:
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. -
Lets see, was that book 10 or 11 of the Left Behind series?:laugh:
Lets see, did Caesar tax the Chinese and American Indians? After all Luke says the WHOLE world:
Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Now for another lesson, the Hebrew word for world is:
תּבל
têbêl
tay-bale'
From H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension the globe; by implication its inhabitants; specifically a particular land, as Babylonia or Palestine: - habitable part, world.
Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, who shall not value silver; and they shall not delight in gold.
Who are these “Medes” if not the ancient Medes? Perhaps Islamic terrorists????
And what are these “swords” they use?
Isa 13:15 Everyone who is found shall be thrust through; and everyone who is joined to them shall fall by the sword.
Could they really be Hydrogen bombs that make the eyes dissolve??? Oh wait, you take the Bible literally. They must really be swords and it must really be the ancient Medes destroying the ancient Babylon. You are aware that that really happened?
Isa 13:13 So I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall move out of its place, in the wrath of Jehovah of Hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger.
Albert Barnes:
Isa 13:13 -
Therefore I will shake the heavens - A strong, but common figure of speech in the Scriptures, to denote great commotions, judgments, and revolutions. The figure is taken from the image of a furious storm and tempest, when the sky, the clouds, the heavens, appear to be in commotion; compare 1Sa_22:8 :
Then the earth shook and trembled,
The foundation of heaven moved and shook,
Because he was wroth.
See also Isa_24:19-20; Hag_2:6-7.
And the earth shall remove out of her place - A common figure in the Scriptures to denote the great effects of the wrath of God; as if even the earth should be appalled at his presence, and should tremble and flee away from the dread of his anger. It is a very sublime representation, and, as carried out often by the sacred writers, it is unequalled in grandeur, probably, in any language. Thus the hills, the mountains, the trees, the streams, the very heavens, are represented as shaken, and thrown into consternation at the presence of God; see Hab_3:6, Hab_3:10 :
What do you use, The Living Bible?
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into another; for truly I say to you, In no way shall you have finished the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
Another very preteristic verse.
Why not? He had His chance:
Joh 6:15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they would come and take Him by force, that they might make Him a king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain alone by Himself.
It was NEVER Jesus’ mission to set up an earthly Kingdom. He came to die.
I must admit I don’t think I’ve ever heard that interpretation. I’ll just let it stand as is and let others decide.
Let’s establish the “when” before the “how”. The nature doesn’t determine the timing, the timing determines the nature.
Find that in the passage. I don’t think you can. But I found numerous that speak of SIN offerings, not memorial offerings. That is an invention of dispies.
Yes, obviously no Hebrew or Greek lexicons are anywhere near you. Good ole KJV right?:thumbs: -
Grasshopper,
Well, It seems I've met my match ---- NOT!
skypair -
skypair -
No, it says : “all these things are fulfilled” It says nothing of a revived Israel. The “all these things” are the events in the preceding verses. When Matthew uses “this generation” it refers to Jesus’ contemporaries in all other places.
Leading dispie Thomas Ice tries to make your point:
"While it is true that other uses of "this generation" refer to Christ's contemporaries, that is because they are historical texts. The use of "this generation" in the Olivet Discourse in the fig tree passages are prophetic texts. In fact, when one compares the historical use of "this generation" at the beginning of the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 23:36 (which is an undisputed reference to A.D.70) with the prophetic use in 24:34, a contrast is obvious." [Ice and Gentry, The Great Tribulation Past or Future (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1999), 103-104.]
But Kenneth Gentry points out the obvious problem:
"Ice tries to distinguish Jesus' use of "this generation" in Matthew 23:36 from the same phrase in 24:34 on the basis that 23:36 is "historical" while 24:34 is "prophetical." Bute note: (1) Both are prophetic. In Matthew 23 Jesus prophesies future persecution for his own disciples (23:34) and the catastrophic calamity to befall the Pharisees in A.D.70 (23:35). Declaring future events in advance is, by definition, "prophetic." [Ice and Gentry, The Great Tribulation Past or Future (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1999), 182.]
Ahh yes, newspaper exegesis.
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, and will bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And you shall know that I am Jehovah when I have opened your graves, O My people, and have brought you up out of your graves.
Eze 37:14 And I shall put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. And you shall know that I Jehovah have spoken and have done it, says Jehovah.
You say Israel is already back in the land as a fulfillment of prophecy, yet the text clearly states the Spirit will be put in them and they shall live and they will know Jehovah has done it. Is this what has happened in modern, secular, mostly agnostic Israel today?
Don’t stop at verse 25, unless of course you’re intentionally trying to ignore the context:
Eze 37:26 And I will cut a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.
Eze 37:27 And My tabernacle shall be with them. Yea, I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Eze 37:28 And the nations shall know that I Jehovah sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in their midst forever.
Paul quotes this and applies it to 1st century believers:
2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
Eph 2:20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord;
Eph 2:22 in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit. -
I read it enough to know how to spell it.
Bingo!!! We have yet another winner!!!:applause: That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you, CONTEXT. The context of Isaiah 13 is the destruction of the Babylonian world by the Medes.
So now you think Is. 13 was describing the destruction of Babylon?? You seem confused.
Once again you show you don’t know the difference between partial-preterism and full-preterism.:BangHead: Albert Barnes and the others would fall into the partial-preterist positions. Assuming of course you know what those positions are.
Sorry, I don’t practice “lone ranger hermeneutics”. Past theologians offer much info on the history, language and idioms of the Hebrew people and bible. But I’m sure you were never taught a gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel, that came from just your own reading of scripture, right?
I have no idea what point you are attempting to make.
Tick tock……………….:sleeping_2:
You’re right, who needs Hebrew or Greek lexicons.
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Ed -
Grasshopper said:
No, it says : “all these things are fulfilled” It says nothing of a revived Israel. The “all these things” are the events in the preceding verses. When Matthew uses “this generation” it refers to Jesus’ contemporaries in all other places.Click to expand...
I take my lead from 24:32-33, the fig tree (national Israel) for my "future" context of Jesus remarks. The "fig tree" has to be one of the "all these things," right?
But futher -- "when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." See, even if you make Mt 24:3-30 out to have happened in 70 AD, there was NOTHING else in the prophecy that was near to being fulfillled ("near, even at the doors")?? The "kingdom" you speak of was set up in Acts 2 almost 40 years earlier! So what are you claiming was "even at the doors?"
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, and will bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And you shall know that I am Jehovah when I have opened your graves, O My people, and have brought you up out of your graves.
Eze 37:14 And I shall put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. And you shall know that I Jehovah have spoken and have done it, says Jehovah.
You say Israel is already back in the land as a fulfillment of prophecy, yet the text clearly states the Spirit will be put in them and they shall live and they will know Jehovah has done it. Is this what has happened in modern, secular, mostly agnostic Israel today?Click to expand...
Don’t stop at verse 25, unless of course you’re intentionally trying to ignore the context:
Eze 37:26 And I will cut a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.
Eze 37:27 And My tabernacle shall be with them. Yea, I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Eze 37:28 And the nations shall know that I Jehovah sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in their midst forever.Click to expand...
Paul quotes this and applies it to 1st century believers:
2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."Click to expand...
Eph 2:20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,Click to expand...
Eph 2:21 in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord;
Eph 2:22 in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit.Click to expand...
You've gotten into a really exciting theme here, gh! And let me just say, many prophecies and even the Jewish feasts have dual fulfillments --- spiritually for the church and the other literally for Israel. Instance -- what is the church's "Passover?" Not Egypt but the cross, right? What is the church's Pentecost? Not Joel 2:28-32 (yet future) but Acts 2:18-21 (Notice Peter leaves out "mount Zion," "Jerusalem," and "remnant," because this was NOT that day spoken of by Joel).
And that is what I have been trying to impress on you and others like you -- the distinction between spiritual fulfillment and literal and why that difference exists. Basically, y'all just want to omit the literal or, as John put it "...take away from the words of the prophecy..."
skypair -
Grasshopper said:You’re right, who needs Hebrew or Greek lexicons.
Click to expand...
skykpair -
There is also the analysis that "this generation" speaks of some future generation just like the one Jesus is addressing in Mt 23:36 and 24:33-34.Click to expand...
You seem to be the only one who believes the “this generation” of Matt. 23 is a still future generation.
I take my lead from 24:32-33, the fig tree (national Israel) for my "future" context of Jesus remarks. The "fig tree" has to be one of the "all these things," right?Click to expand...
No, the fig tree was just an analogy just as the use of “summer” was.
Luke not only uses the fig tree but all the trees in his version:
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
If the fig tree means Israel then Jesus already cursed her never to bear fruit again:
Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
But futher -- "when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." See, even if you make Mt 24:3-30 out to have happened in 70 AD, there was NOTHING else in the prophecy that was near to being fulfillled ("near, even at the doors")?? The "kingdom" you speak of was set up in Acts 2 almost 40 years earlier! So what are you claiming was "even at the doors?"Click to expand...
It would become “near” when the events were to begin occurring, they were not occurring when Jesus spoke these words. The events began occurring in the following years with many being recorded in Acts.
there is a period during which they will be called back in unbelief before the final 7 years.Click to expand...
Where is this found in scripture and why does Eze. 37 indicate just the opposite?
Yep. First His sanctuary will be the Millennial temple of Ezekiel and then the New Jerusalem come down from heaven, Rev 21.Click to expand...
I guess you couldn’t find scriptural evidence where those sacrifices are to be “memorials” in Eze. 40-47????? Until you do, your entire argument on the MK Temple is nothing but fanciful speculation based upon nothing but a presupposition.
Paul quotes this and applies it to 1st century believers:
2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of Godhave with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
Well, unless you are going to allegorize all the meaning out of it! Is the church "in the midst" of ISRAEL as you would have the passage prophesy? I would say the church is everywhere BUT in their midst!Click to expand...
And what "sanctuary" has a foundation of the apostles? NJ -- Rev 21:14. And has the "prophets" or teachers as "pillars?" -- Rev 3:12Click to expand...
That’s right, the NJ is the Church:
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, -
Not Joel 2:28-32 (yet future) but Acts 2:18-21 (Notice Peter leaves out "mountZion," "Jerusalem," and "remnant," because this was NOT that day spoken of by Joel).Click to expand...
First, what is your literal definition of “this is that”?
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Secondly Peter may not have spoken of Mount Zion or Jerusalem, but Paul and the writer of Hebrews did:
Heb 12:22 But you have come to MountZion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Gal 4:22 For it is written: Abraham had two sons, the one out of the slave-woman, and one out of the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But, indeed, he out of the slave-woman has been born according to flesh, and he out of the free woman through the promise;
Gal 4:24 which things are being allegorized; for these are the two covenants, one indeed from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery, which is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 For Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalemfrom above is free, who is the mother of us all.
And that is what I have been trying to impress on you and others like you -- the distinction between spiritual fulfillment and literal and why that difference exists. Basically, y'all just want to omit the literal or, as John put it "...take away from the words of the prophecy..."Click to expand...
Perhaps you better read this verse since you like to add your own interpretations to His word:
Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.
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