You have, inadvertently I am sure, aptly stated the problem with dispensationalism.
Hyper or ultra dispensationalists have dug themselves so deeply into a hole that they will never get out.
Classic dispensationalists are still digging because their faulty system demands it but the truth still evades them as it must.
Progressive dispensationalists are at least making an attempt to get out of the hole classic dispensationalism put them.
Cheers!:wavey:
Pastor Qualifications.
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by pilgrim2009, Jun 23, 2009.
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Greetings brethren.
Since the book of Revelation is a symbolic book I believe the 1000 years of Rev 20 is symbolic of the Church age and the chain and binding of satan is symbolic of his power being severly limited at the Cross.
I believe the bible literally teaches that there will be one Judgement when the goats and sheep are seperated at the last day not 1007 years apart.
I see dispensationalist say they take the book as literal as possible.I dont think this is the case since they dont believe since the bible says there is no difference between the Jew or Gentile but they say yes it is.
The Bible also says when Christ returns this earth will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt with fervent heat.{2nd Peter 3:12}The dispensationalist thinks the earth will only be renovated by fire but the Bible says different.Since Peter is considered by dispensationalist as to the Jew only what was Peter looking to come?New Heavens and a New earth {2nd Peter 3:13}
Dispensationalist believe the Jew will go into an earthly Kingdom that was promised to Abraham.Why does the Bible literally teach Abraham was looking for a heavenly kingdom that God hath prepared them if he wasnt?.{Hebrews 11:16}
Abraham was looking for a heavenly Kingdom and the Jewish epistle of Peter says they were looking for a New Heavens and New earth.
Brethren we are in the symbolic of a thousand year millennium reigning with Christ now waiting on a New Heavens and New earth.
The saved Jew and Gentile will have a new heavens and earth according to His promise.{2nd Peter 3:13}Now thats literalism.
It cant get no more literal than that.Also dont forget {2nd Peter 3:8}
But beloved,be not ignorant of this one thing,that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,and a thousand years as one day.
Praise God we will all have a New heavens and new earth according to His promise {2nd Peter 3:13}
God bless in Jesus.
Steven. -
Just as a passanger can sit in your car but the car is not theirs. However it is your childrens through inheritance. Or in the same manner, back in the middle ages. The kingdom belonged to those of the royal house as an inheritance but it did not belong to the people who dwelt in it. Only the children of the King had ownership and thus authority in that kingdom.
There are two basic forms of inheritance spoken of in in the New Testament. 1. is the eternal inheritance:
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Ed -
is any of this even on topic?
and the qualifications of a pastor are............ -
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Mose killed a man in Egypt,
David had one killed to get his wife.
Whomever God "calls", is "qualified" to "lead".
ALL have sinned. -
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At the judgment the believer will only hear: "Enter thou into the joy of the LORD" since their judgment has been taken by Jesus Christ. Revelation 21 & 22 give some indication of the joy that awaits the believer in the New Heavens and New Earth where they will dwell eternally in the presence of the Triune GOD.
Of course we have no idea of the evil in the Gentile world prior to the incarnation of Jesus Christ.
However, even dispensationalists must admit that evil exist in the so-called millennial kingdom since there are mortals, saved and unsaved, present and Jesus Christ rules with a "rod of iron". -
The problem with the idea that the 1,000 years is not literal is that the bible says this: "till the thousand years should be fullfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." A few verses later: "and when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of prison." Notice that this thousand years come to an end.
The language there suggests that this is a definite period of time that expires. -
Incidentally, in the context of the post you reference Scripture is not necessary. It is simply a logical truth.
Darby and Scofield were wrong. Chafer is wrong. Ryrie is wrong. Walvoord is wrong. Dispensationalism is wrong. You are wrong. God has only one people, His elect, those for whom Jesus Christ died, those who constitute His bride, the Church. And Jesus Christ came for only one purpose: to redeem through His death those given to Him by the Father, His bride, the Church. -
Ephesians 2:15-16 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;for to make in himself OF TWAIN ONE NEW MAN,so making peace.And that he might RECONCILE BOTH UNTO GOD IN ONE BODY by the cross,having slain the enmity thereby.
Gods Word says both {i.e.Jew and Gentile} are made one body by the cross.No God has one set of people {Jew and Gentile} made one in the body of Christ the Church ,as was believed for 1800 years until the doctrine was created as a counter attack against the reformation and is strong as ever today .Amen.Ignatius Loyola and Emmanuel Lacunza were the master minds behind it.
God bless in Jesus.
Steven. -
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(Said only to remind us that the mere saying of things won't make them true. They actually have to be demonstrated to be true by reasoning and support, which is absent.)
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Should we look at all uses of "thousand" in the Bible as something other than a thousand? How do we know? -
John F. MacArthur in his book Charismatic Chaos [page 94] writes on the interpretation of Scripture by Scripture as follows [emphasis mine.]:
The Reformers used the expression scriptura scripturam interpretatur, or ‘Scripture interprets Scripture.’ By this they meant that obscure passages in Scripture must be understood in light of clearer ones. If the Bible is God's Word, it must be consistent with itself. No part of the Bible can contradict any other part. One divine Author, the Holy Spirit, inspired the whole Bible, so it has one marvelous, supernatural unity. The synthesis principle puts Scripture together with Scripture to arrive at a clear, consistent meaning. If we hold to an interpretation of one passage that does not square with something in another passage, one of the passages is being interpreted incorrectly, or possibly both of them. The Holy Spirit does not disagree with himself. And the passages with obvious meanings should interpret the more arcane [obscure] ones. One should never build a doctrine on a single obscure or unclear text. When I teach a passage of Scripture, I often guide the congregation to different parts of the Bible to show how the passage under study fits into the total context of Scripture. In his fine book God Has Spoken, J. I. Packer said:
‘The Bible appears like a symphony orchestra, with the Holy Ghost as its Toscanini; each instrumentalist has been brought willingly, spontaneously, creatively, to play his notes just as the great conductor desired, though none of them could ever hear the music as a whole.... The point of each part only becomes fully clear when seen in relation to all the rest.’
Peter said much the same thing when he wrote, ‘As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you .... made careful search and inquiry, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating’ [1 Peter 1:10-11]. Even the Bible writers did not always know the full meaning of what they wrote. Today, because the New Testament is complete, we can see how the Bible connects into one glorious comprehensible whole.
MacArthur is correct. Obscure passages in Scripture must be understood in light of clearer ones and the passages with obvious meanings should interpret the more arcane [obscure] ones. Unfortunately MacArthur being a dispensationalist does not follow his own advice. There is no Scripture that more clearly defines the resurrection than John 5:28, 29 and you know it regardless of what you say.
You continue with the mantra: "you are not dealing with Scripture. And that's a major problem." and that is pure nonsense. You deal with John 5:28, 29, which you falsely claim to have done, then talk about dealing with Scripture. -
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Let me try an example to illustrate: Someone says, “What are you doing this week?” You say, “ I am going to go to work.” So Monday you go to work. Tuesday, you go to work. They say, “What are you doing? You said you were only going to work once.” You say, “No, I go to work every day. That was just a general statement of what would happen.”
Now, obviously all analogies fall apart, but clearly the point can be seen that a general statement must be interpreted by more specific statements. So the general statement of John 5:28,29 must be interpreted by the more specific statements. I think that is where you are missing the boat here. Your focus on John 5:28,29 causes you to essentially ignore the more clear passages.
Now back to the passage, I won’t rehearse it all here, because I have done so in other places that can be searched. However, the NT clearly defines stages of resurrection. Secondly, “hour” in John (and the NT) does not refer only to an exact moment but to a period of time.
The problem here appears that you are unwilling to graciously disagree with other brothers in good faith. I find that distasteful. Why are you like this? What is stuck in your craw that causes you to respond this way? Every time you start up a new conversation I hope it has changed. Maybe next time. -
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BTW, OR, did you listen to Schreiner's message on Rev 20? You should. It isn't long. You won't agree, but you will hear some very serious problems addressed.
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