Pastor's Salary

Are you sure he is contributing $3600 to his own retirement out of his church compensation?

It takes a rare individual to be disciplined enough to contribute $300 a month to his retirement fund.

Plus you didn't say how many children he has or if his wife works outside of the home. I'm trying to get a total picture of his finances so I can form an opinion.

His statement about respect reflects on either his ignorance or his spiritual condition.

 

is the $ calling pastors these days or God?

 

No, I am not sure. This is the way he asked the church to break it down on THEIR books in case the IRS ever audits him. He claims that it is easier to pass an audit if the church has already designated these funds. The list of money that I gave you at the top is paid as one check.

Don't forget that the parsonage and its paid bills are on top of the cash for living expenses.

Add all of those up and then add wwhat a house, insurance and property taxes would cost and you have a better idea of the reality of his salary.

 

The cost of living has been listed as the lowest in the country.

Yes, the raw numbers seem low, but add a free house, free gas, free cellphone, free property taxees, free home insurance, free property insurance on the books in his library, etc. etc. and add those in. Also, add the extra $1500 per month the churh pays into his annuity.

Once you add all of that up, then you start seeing a different, much higher picture.

In all honesty, the money has been divided this way to hide it. It is my understanding that the proposed raise will be spread across the numbers so that it doesn't appear as one big increase.

 

I answered the first question above. The money he has given as salary is simply divided on the budget this way. Whether he saves it or not is between him and the IRS--he was he one who asked that it be split up this way. Last year it was listed as a total salary.

He has no kids under 18. His wife worked, but quit because she wasn't getting along with co-workers (this had to do with why he wanted the big raise).

I must say that in reviewing salaries for people, preachers or secular, you should NEVER consider the situation at home of the family. That is unfair to those who choose not to get married and are thrifty savers. A person should be paid strictly for what he gives to the orginization and not based on his needs at home. Now, in all fairness, you may want to be a little less strict on this rule with pastors, but in the secular world, the family must not and can not be considered---only the WORKER himself and his contribution to the organization.

 

I am not a pastor. I live not far from you.

I honestly think it sounds a bit low.
And the church should do the best it can, period, in my opinion. Regardless of whether or not it approves of every idea of his about it, including "respect".
If there is to be a formula, I would go with an average of the wages of the top half of the congregation's earners and then double that.
I believe there is a New Testament concept of "double wages".

Karen

 

I didn't say the church was anywhere near me. Sorry. :D ;)

 

LOl, I dont think its low at all. Especially for the degree. My husband has 2 masters and is almost done with a PhD, and he doesnt make that much. Of course, this is where God has put us, and we are happy. God provides everything we need and then some. I cannot stand to be around pastors who think that respect comes with being a pastor. Respect is earned, and we dont want ANY special treatment "because" of being a pastor's family. But everyone is different.

 

I certainly believe in paying pastors well, but I also agree that education, experience and performance should all be considered.

I don't understand the double-salary bit. That doesn't seem too fair to the people who were not called to preach.

So, if the average salary is 75K of the top 50% in an influential neighborhood, then the pastor should be paid $150,000? Without a PHD in theology, I don't think so..........

 

I'm not a pastor either - and don't want to be one:0

We had a church of just under 100 members; also rural. The way we paid our pastor was to budget $50,000 for that line item. Out of that $50,000 came his rent, salary, mileage and telephone reimbursements, utilities, and medical insurance. The church took out a separate malpractice insurance policy in case the ACLU ever decided to sue us for anything.

My pastor did not ask for a specific salary. He let the church decide what it could pay and he then made the decision to accept it. He trusted God to meet his needs, and still does because a year later, our church split and we could not afford to pay anywhere near what we'd promised him.

My pastor never said a word about his salary. He insisted that we kept tithing to other ministries out of whatever offerings were collected. We still had a building to pay for, utilities, etc. Whatever was left, and it wasn't much, went to the pastor.

Eventually my pastor went back into the construction business to support his family. He still pastors our church. I'd be surprised if we collect $500 a month any more. But he does everything that he used to do when he worked for the church full-time.

God has blessed my pastor financially. He earns more now than he did on a pastor's salary, and I believe it is because he has always understood that his income does not come from people in the congregation, but rather from God.

I've said this in another post, but it bothers me and I'm sure it bothers God when believers argue about how much the pastor is worth. Pastors, like soldiers, policemen, and firemen, can never be paid what they are worth. But worse is the attitude that God's tithe somehow belongs to the people. These people hide their greed behind claims of making sure that 'their' tithes are spent wisely. If you've got to tell God how to spend His money, you might as well keep it because God will not honor your giving. Let it go, and let God decide how to bless the people He can reach.

As far as leadership goes. If a pastor is good, he'll make a good living. If a pastor is not so good, he won't. A good pastor will attract more people which will lead to more offerings, which can lead to an increase in salary. A bad pastor will turn people away and make it impossible to earn a living. I'm not saying this is what happened in our church. We had some people with money who wanted the pastor to do and preach certain things and he told them no so they left, and good riddance. God calls pastors, not congregations.

[ December 22, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: larry9179 ]

 

Why is it that so often the liberal churches pay their pastors more than the conservative churches?

 

I think you have to consider the family with a pastor because so many churches think they'll pay for the pastor but get the wife for free.

 

Maybe they have a stronger central structure? Maybe they've been around longer? Maybe there are fewer (one per area instead of several)?

These are just some guesses.

 

Good post larry9179

 

Not all good pastors attract all people. Some liberal pastors pastor large churches while there are some very excellent pastors pastoring small churches living on little.

Many large churches have preachers who live above the people and have distanced themselves from the people. Try talking theology with some of them. They are very closed to that kind of discussion.

Sometime look at how much a very large church may spend on TV and radio broadcasting sucking the money from people who should be giving locally. Many are even preaching a false theology. Benny Hinn does an excellent job of fooling people into giving to his lavish lifestyle. Robert Tilton did that and is still doing it too. Popov is now on the air with his miracle water. He was stopped by 20/20.

How many pastors is anyone aware of who personally disciples people which leads a large church filled with disciplemakers?

The point is that if a pastor is doing what God has called him to do then he must preach the Bible and make disciples and then let the chips fall where they may like Isaiah did in IS. 6.

 

I was referring to I Timothy 5: 17-18 which says that elders are to receive "double honor" and quotes Lev. that the worker is worthy of his wages. Some do say that means the pastor should be paid more financially as a part of the "honor".

Karen

 

Is being a pastor just another big-bucks fixed-income college degree occupation, or is it supposed to be different. I am not saying that a pastor should live in poverty, but it seems alarming to me that it is a very common thing that being a pastor is like an upper-middle-class-to-upper-class secular job provided by a convention board with government-based benefits/retirement packages. Is this what Paul means by "live of the gospel"? It just seems funny to me to picture a rich pastor driving his Rolls Royce telling the minimum-wage earning widowed mom that she needs to "live by faith" and "bring the tithes into the storehouse." She then says, "Ok. I'll just push myself through Bible college and then I can live by faith too!"

 

Maybe this could be a question for another topic: Is it necessary or appropriate for a pastor to ever demand a raise in pay?

 

Some thoughts on this matter...

I don't think it is right to consider the wife's income when setting the pastor's compensation package.

Social security off-set, automobile allowance, and other ministry-related expenses should not be considered income for the pastor.

Medical insurance and retirement allowance should be considered as benefits.

Salary and housing allowance should be understood to be income.

A pastor should never be placed in the position of having to ask for a raise. If he has to do that, the personnel team and/or stewardship team is dropping the ball.

I like the across-the-board percentage increase for the entire staff....unless a particular staff person is underpaid and needs to have his or her package raised to a more equitable level.

 

bah-humbug... The BEST Youth Pastor *I* Ever had, who made the BIGGEST impact in my life, Never EVER got paid! I'm serving the Lord today because of his ministry in the mid 1980's... An Ol' Holiness Preacher, of a Holiness Church my daddy went to, when he was a baby, they'd come to his bouse, change his diaper and take him to Church, him and his wife, lived TOTALLY by faith, they were never paid.

It makes me sick, to see Pastors doing the Lord's work for the stinkin' $$$$$, :mad: and I know it sickens The Lord too. PhD's and Doctorates don't make you no preacher! A Calling of the Lord does! Secular Managment, belongs in the Secular World, Not in the house of God, Didn't Jesus chase out the money changers?!?!?!? Whatever happened to the Acts chapter 6 Style Church? Whatever happened to doing stuff, "As unto the Lord"???? The Apostles NEVER got paid, Paul NEVER got paid!

Oh, I'm Dr. so and so, you gotta pay me better! :mad: I'm glad as heck, I never went to "Bible College", I wouldn't go, least I get eaten up with the curse of "Scholar idolarty".

Am I a Pastor of a Church? No
Am I a Minister of the Gospel, Yes.
Whom do a have a degree through, God Almighty!
and the good ol' School of bloody knuckles and Hard Knocks!

and I work for FREE!

<Rant mode off now...>

MH