Featured PB's monergism vs. Reformed's monergism.

First, I would disagree with your interpretation of this verse in Romans 9.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

When Paul spoke of the Potter here, he was making reference to Jeremiah 18 where God said that if he has spoken evil toward a nation, if they repent of their sins, he would repent of the evil he intended toward them. Likewise, if there was a nation he had spoken favorably toward, if they turn away from him and sin, then God would turn from the good he intended toward them.

Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

Paul was NOT teaching Unconditional Election as Calvinism claims in Romans 9. He was teaching that God was rejecting the Jews because they had rejected Christ and attempted to save themselves through works, and that he was now accepting the Gentiles because they sought righteousness through faith in Jesus.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

God is just, he does not damn people unconditionally, but for wilful unbelief.

 

Utter false

Lots of assertions concerning my beliefs, most of them false.

Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith. It is God who decides whether we believe, but if He credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, He saves us.

No solution is needed, God is just and treats everyone, including the feeble-minded and toddlers justly.

Here are the facts, babies are conceived in iniquity. By the sin of the one, the many, including babies, were made sinners. Even though they have done nothing good or bad, they are condemned already because of unbelief. They are by nature, children of wrath. This is the only view consistent with all scripture. Calvinism denies this truth, saying God saves babies and the like by giving them faith via irresistible grace. Pure fiction with no support in scripture.

 

I completely disagree with your view and Luke's view. The scriptures do not say children are born children of wrath. The scriptures say men are children of wrath because they WALKED in trespasses and sins and FULFILLED the desires of the flesh and of the mind. (Eph 2:1-3). Babies are not dead in sin because they have done neither good or bad (Romans 9:11).

Paul said he was ALIVE without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he DIED. No man could say he was once alive if Original Sin is true.

Peter said that Christians have RETURNED to Jesus, the Bishop and Shepherd of our souls. If we are born sinners separated from God as you believe, then no man could be said to be RETURNED to God. You cannot return someplace you have never been before.

Jesus twice said the prodigal son was ALIVE AGAIN. Again, if we are all born dead in sin, no man could be said to be alive AGAIN, but this is exactly what Jesus himself taught.

Calvinism has it wrong, and so do you.

 

Best statement I've ever seen you make.:thumbs:

Who disagrees with that?

WONDERFUL! This is exactly right. For some reason I thought you were like some others who don't know this FUNDAMENTAL truth.

Calvinism is probably the biggest defender of this truth in history. It certainly does not DENY it! It is fundamental to Calvinism!

Calvinism just says that God can save whoever he wants, with or without their knowledge of it.

God can apply the merits of Christ to babies and invalids. I tend to think he does.

But your system believes that God saves through CHOICE- not faith.

One has to CHOOSE Christ.

Since babies born in sin cannot CHOOSE, then you cannot justify how your system has God saving babies.

And this salvation by grace through choice stuff is problematic, too.

 

It is not the only truly monergistic system out there.

If I beat you to death with my fists can you say you helped me beat you to death with my fists?

No. I monergistically beat you to death using my fists.

Now, if I take into my fists a baseball bat instead and beat tyou to death with that- is your death by beating any less monergistic just because I used a means (a bat) to beat you to death? No. Not at all.

God does all of the regenerating all by himself whenever he gets good and ready but he uses the GOSPEL (which is really the Word which is all Him anyway).

 

Actually if you beat him to death he won't be able to say anything. :laugh:


Sorry Luke, I couldn't resist. I thought you would appreciate my attention to detail. :tongue3:

:1_grouphug:

 

:laugh:


___________

 

He still could if God decreed that he could. Isn't that what Calvinists believe?

 

Yes, He could. If God could make a donkey talk, I suppose He could make dead guy talk. Wait....He already did that! :laugh:

 

Best post in this thread:wavey:

 

Wow, a flaming free willer who apparently has actually been pondering these things. Be bery bery careful Willis, you could get flipped to 'the other side'.

Most critics would rather refer to the PBs as 'hyper-Cals' instead of 'truly monergistic'.

 

So when did God change?

 

He hasn't.

 

Ok. So you don't hold to Old School SB distinction between regeneration and conversion, right?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1676873#post1676873

 

Supposedly a study note from the Reformation Study Bible:

"....“When the RSB speaks in the notes of John 3 of "infants being born again," it is speaking of the work of quickening God does in them which inclines their will to Him. In Protestantism, regeneration always precedes faith and if God quickens them, the person will surely come . . .Often, regeneration and our subsequent faith happen apparently simultaneously but logically, regeneration must precede faith. An infant’s faith may not come until years after God has worked by His Holy Spirit to regenerate him or her. Two Biblical examples of infants who were born again are seen in Psalm 22:9-10 and Luke 1:15.”..."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1640868#post1640868

Many, maybe even most, Reformed folks hold to regeneration before profession but none hold to regeneration without profession, that is the real distinction to be made between PB and Reformed soteriology.

 

It's absolutely necessary for the regenerate to obey the gospel in order to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

And the beat goes on. Scripture teaches faith before being given the right to become children of God. When a person is regenerated, they become spiritual children of God, thus regeneration gives the right to become physical children of God at the second coming.

Now lets turn to monergistic salvation. We are saved by grace through faith. Whose faith? Our faith. God credits our faith, or not, as righteousness. Thus our faith does not save us or merit salvation. It is God who credits our worthless, merit-less faith as righteousness. Hence our salvation is monergistic, because it is God who decides or not to credit our faith as righteousness.

This is the scriptural view.